Arya Samaj

Shishya

Earlier this week, the Pope of the Catholic Church, quoting 14th Century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II, said:

Devo · Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:54 am Post subject:

Namaste,

The Pope is an intelligent man, no doubt. With that said, he should have used basic common sense in regards to his choice of words and quotations, which he presented in his controversial speech.

The Islamic world have every right to feel offended, be offended, and voice their opinion on this matter.

I really don't care if those weren't his words. However, if it came from his mouth, he should he held accountable.

Nevertheless, the Pope was sincere enough to offer an apology ,publicly, and both parties should let bygones be bygones. We certainly don't need another one of these controversies in our already troubled world.

With these few words, I pray, that by the grace of God, everyone may once again see all with the eyes of a friend, and may all continue to work towards one common goal, to make our world a better place.

Namaste,
Dev.

Shishya · Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject:

Namaste Devo,

I agree. The Pope is most certainly an intelligent man, and he could have easily forseen the reaction to his speech. And in my opinion, I don't think it was an oversight or accidental at all. Just as the Muslims are skilled at taking advantage of situations like we had with Vande Mataram, so too are the Christians skilled at provoking them.

As we all know, Islam has the highest number of members under the age of 20 of any religion today. This is generally considered to be a great strength. However the Pope has shown how it can be a great weakness as well.

The Pope was criticising Islam for being a religion of violence. A few words from him unleashed a series of attacks, including the burning of several churches in various locations around the Middle East. If nothing else, the reaction of the Muslim Community - unable to judge what is at stake due to blind devotion to their cause - proved that the statement of the Pope was, in fact, correct. That's not to say that Islam in itself is violent (that is another topic), but rather that Islam fosters a violent mentality in it's followers. People (including many Mulisms) have been criticising Christianity for decades and more, yet we have not seen fanatical Christians burn down embassies and temples in responce. That is precicely the difference I think the Pope was trying to underline - albeit in a very indirect (and some could say devious) way.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject:

I blame the pope. Most of the muslims already get pissed off about allegations against them (not all support jihad...) just as hindus get pissed off about "brahman-ism" and stuff. All he'll do is bring forth more damage.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Devo · Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:32 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

Both of you have made some very strong points.

I personally don't think the Pope should have stepped outside of his Religious boundaries, and cast stones at others. The pope should examine his faith very carefully before speaking.

Namaste,
Dev.

Shishya · Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject:

Namaste Devo,

You are definately right there. Of all the religions to make such a critique, you would think that Christianity would be the last in line. I am reminded of a phrase:

Prabhat · Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject:

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

it is just a quote, and it is 600 years old. stupid the muslims didnt read it a long time ago, now they are showing off, stupid people. Evil or Very Mad

and what is wrong in it, and why do have muslims the sword????
_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Shishya · Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:04 am Post subject:

Namaste,

I find all of this particularly interesting in light of the fact that Islam promotes itself as a religion of peace. I think that image has been completely destroyed for good - mostly at the hands of fervent Muslims. Are we the only ones that can sense the irony here? Rolling Eyes

_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shishya

Pakistan Clerics say: "Pope Must Go"
by
BBC

Radical Muslim clerics and scholars in Pakistan have demanded the removal of Pope Benedict XVI for what they called "insulting remarks" against Islam.

The Pope should be dismissed for "encouraging war and fanning hostility between various faiths" the hundreds of senior Muslims said in a joint message.

The Pope has said he is "deeply sorry" that his words, quoting a 14th Century Christian emperor, had upset Muslims. But his apology was rejected by the Muslims meeting in Lahore, Pakistan.

"The Pope, and all infidels, should know that no Muslim, under any circumstances, can tolerate an insult to the Prophet [Muhammad]. If the West does not change its stance regarding Islam, it will face severe consequences," said the joint statement.

The group behind the meeting, Jamaat al-Dawat, has been listed by the US government as a "terrorist" group for its alleged links with Kashmiri militant group Lashkar-e-Toiba.

"The Pope's statement against Prophet Muhammad was not unintentional," said Sajid Mir, a religious scholar and MP who took part in the meeting.

"He has opened a new and an organised front against Islam and Muslims should prepare themselves for jihad because the Pope's insulting remarks against Islam follow President George W Bush's statement on crusades," he said.

Effigies Burned

Muslims around the world were outraged when the Pope quoted medieval Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologos criticising some teachings of the Prophet Mohammed as "evil and inhuman".

The comments related to the spreading of Islam by force. The Pope said he used them during a thesis in which he said religion should never be used to justify violence.

The Pope has since stressed that the emperor's views did not agree with his own. "This quotation unfortunately was misunderstood," he said. He went on to express "deep respect" for Islam.

However there have been demonstrations in many countries, most peaceful, but some in which protesters have burned papal images.

Benedict did not retract his comments, saying they were meant to spur philosophical and theological debate.

(Source)

Shyena · Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject:

Anyone who hates harry potter is a friend of mine!

Save this guy

Shishya · Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

I had to laugh out loud when I read this. Muslims demanding that the Pope 'be dismissed'? Hillarious!
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject:

Namaste Shishy,

You know nothing about these radical muslims yet then Laughing

_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Shishya · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject:

Muslims Debate Pope's Speech Reaction
by
Magdi Abdelhadi
Arab Affairs Analyst
BBC News

Despite the predominantly emotional and angry response to the Pope's controversial remarks about Islam, some Muslim writers and intellectuals have been extremely critical of the way Muslims have responded so far.

The angry reactions to the Pope's original remarks included the killing of an Italian nun in Somalia and attacks on Christian churches in Palestinian territories. But several Muslim writers argued that such violent reactions appeared to confirm the very things that Muslims have been seeking to refute. Some concluded that it would have been better to engage in a rational debate with the Pope. The European Muslim scholar, Tarik Ramadan, blamed Muslim leaders and scholars for such violent responses.

'Let off steam'

Leaders who deny their people freedom of expression, he wrote, find it convenient to allow their people to let off some steam as long as it is about Danish cartoons or words uttered by the Pope.

Mr Ramadan asks rhetorically whether it was wise of Muslims to feel offended by the Pope's quotation from a 14th Century Christian emperor while they continue to ignore questions they have faced over the past five years about the meaning of the term "jihad" and the legitimate use of force.

Khaled Hroub, a Jordanian-born academic, wrote that the aggressive and intolerant reactions failed to live up to the ideals Muslims believe in.

The Muslim reaction to the Pope's apology has also come in for a lot of criticism.

Mr Hroub wondered whether Muslim clerics can ever be asked to apologise for believing that Islam is the one and only true religion.

One columnist, Abdelwahab Al Affendi, ridiculed those who demanded a retraction of the Pope's original remarks. Mr Al Effendi wrote saying that nothing short of the Pope's converting to Islam will ever assuage the anger of those people!

(Source)

Mitra · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:36 pm Post subject:

The Pope is a scholar ... he knows very well what he said raise a debate in civilized circles and hell on the muslim streets. I am glad he did not retract his statements...Its just a quote and if there are scholars and thinking people in Islam they should be allowed to respond properly.
Instead, it is the time-honored muslim mob reaction which we get to witness quite regularly, isnt it?Just shows how muslim society works...Shishya is right, The muslims themselves are poving the Pope right. Fools. But it is time muslims start to understand that anyone can scrutinize and examine their religion and question it. They should be able to answer it. Just because they accept their faith blindly doesn't mean the rest of the world is gonna do the same.
They are extremely touchy these muslim mobs... They are very insecure all the time as they believe their Faith is under threat. And given the numbers of unemployed ,uneducated, poor, and well-built young men they have , with nothing on their hands and minds, it is a child's play for the
vested interests of mullahs and politicians to raise hell.
Source: Growing up in a neighbourhood near muslim ghettoes, listening to the hatred-filled Friday sermons, watching young boys throw stones and bombs just for fun in the name of their faith.

Deepan Abisuriya · Junior Member Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 66

Namaste,

Pope knew very well the reaction of muslims. There are many who sideline and appease muslms by saying that islam is not promoting violence. It is true that Islam of Quran ( if correctly interpreted), doesnot promote violence, but where are the correct interpreters? The wrong interpretation can be seen in their violent behaviour.

This wouldn't have been the case if any other religion would have been critisised. No religion is so violent than Islam. At least in the present world.

There are series of criticism in the west by politicians and religious leaders. I think, they want to tell the world the following :

1) that muslim world cannot continue this (violent behaviour) any more, and the whole world is ready to crush this.

2) Let not muslims think that they are feared. All can fearlessly condemn violence and muslims can't do anything but to stop.

3) Muslims are not majority and that the followers of peace are more strong than them. This is proved by subsiding of muslim anger fearing backlash.

4) Pope know the reaction of muslims, and their (muslim) reaction has proved that Pope was correct. Their reaction itself was a message that Pope was right, and the west wants to join with the east to crushing violent rligion by proving it.

Not only Pope, I really believe that any, infact almost all senseful and sensitive non-muslim feels the same. He feels safe with all communities around him, but not with this muslim community.

As per my observation. Where ever muslims are, there is wide spread violence.

Namaste,
Deepan.

Shyena · Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject:

>>2) Let not muslims think that they are feared. All can fearlessly condemn violence and muslims can't do anything but to stop. <<
Their community actually spreads the opposite message - that no one acknowledges them and that they're suppressed above all others.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Deepan Abisuriya · Junior Member Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 66

Namaste,

They give such a opposite messsage that they are suppressed to get sympathy, reservations and a lot of political mobility.

Deepan

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject:

the one thing i have heart from my marocaan friends and turkish friends is.
that in the koran is writing, "go and make the world on big islam" so they are realy busy making one. and the dont mind if the lose a few of them or not. it is for a good cause Confused

here in Holland you have now more mosque that churches, and now they want to have a hospital(halal) in Rotterdam. And you believe me they will get it.

stap by stap the are taking over Holland.

but please do not tell them that the are wrong, and that they live in a foreign country, and they have to live by the rules of that country, they can kill you for that, and they are not afraid to go to jail. here in Holland you will get 9 years for killing a person.

So is no use talking to these people.
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Deepan Abisuriya · Junior Member Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 66

Namaste ji,

I am shocked about this.

I have a question, pls don't mistake me. If this will become the situation of the whole world, how and where can we decent people live?

How are you able to tolerate such people around you in Holland.

Really, you are a follower of ahimsa!. Not flattering..but really I feel it.

I sometimes feel that this muslim generation (of misunderstanding of Quran) should die by a curse from God. They are more harm to the society than any good.

Thanks,
Deepan.

Shishya · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

I, too, am deeply troubled by this. But, as Deepan mentioned, what are decent people to do? I am not an advocate of violence. I would like if we could use the forces of non-violence resistance to combat this, but I don't see any clear way. Fanatical Muslims (or any fanatics, for that matter) are beyond the reach of reasoned discussion. And they only see the suffering of their own people - never that of their 'enemies'. Honestly, I don't like to think about the possibilities the future holds in regards to this particular issue. Instead I try and focus upon spreading the message of Dharma. But that is me trying to escape the very real and immanent danger at hand...
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Prabhat · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject:

the islam is the topic of time in Holland, like in the rest of the world. and the islam people enjoy the publicity. and they always say, this we have won again. and this wil go on and on.

goverments are affraid something will happen in there country, i can not blame them they are carefull abouth somethings.

and than the question where people like us should live, dont know bro. even in Suriname where i came from they already making it ther country. Crying or Very sad

thats why believe it or not, that USA bombing afganistan en irak, i am happy with ther action.
_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Deepan Abisuriya · Junior Member Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 66

Namaste,

Every cloud has a silver lining. Even though muslims seem to be taking over countries, we as hindus are all around the world - peaceful, even christians, Jains and all other religions population fill the world. These veterans of ahimsa are the majority, we have the power of God, who never spares the sinners and is always with the meek.

This message is found in the Bible , Quran and vedas. So we are safe as God himself is with us, with so many people of God around the world with us.

Deepan.

Prabhat · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject:

Shishya · Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject:

Namaste Prabhat,

Forgiveness must start somewhere, bro... Wink

_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Deepan Abisuriya · Junior Member Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 66

Namasteji,

But does forgiveness mean, the criminal is free without bringing to justice.
Will not this hurt the future of mankind.

I think forgiveness should always go hand in hand with justice. Only then the future will be safe for all.

God himself is doing this through western and eastern powers, through natural calamities : Smile

I agree with you shishya, that God's judgement is greater than mans justice.

Namaste
Deepan.