Arya Samaj

Shyena · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:31 am Post subject:

From all that i've read, regarding to vegetarianism:
1)Vedas don't propound vegetarianism. They propound eating of sattvik food, the list of which is given in various scriptures. We should abstain from rajasic and tamasic food as much as possible - this includes mushrooms..

2)We can eat food of animals, but never that of a cow for its loss is harmful.

3)We should prohibit eating animals only when we're hungry, but not for relishing the taste.

4)Any species killed shouldn't die in state of fear, shock or pain. Such qualities induce sin upon us for inflicting pain, also this emotional state is then induced by the man. Plants however do not develop such states.

(The second line doesn't seem scientific : but when i was reading article by paramhansa sivananda it made sense. He explains that when an animal dies at peak state of emotions, toxins are developed in the nervous system of the animal which are non-bio-degradable, thus bio-accumulate within our body causing problems to our nervous system)

Shishya · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:55 am Post subject:

Namaste PD,

Technically, you are right. However, three points must be kept in mind:

1) The flesh of animals, when consumed, changes a man's disposition and makes men cruel. Ayurveda teaches that meat, though capable of sustaining life if eaten, does more harm to the body and mind than going without food altogether. And according to my sources, no meat is considered sattvic.

2) Is there a way to kill an animal without causing it pain? I don't think anyone can honestly claim that having your head chopped off or your throat cut is a painless procedure.

2) Swamiji taught that no useful animals should be killed for food. Yet, as our knowledge of the principles of biological diversity has increased, can any animal which is not in some way useful to man be found? Of course, there are on occasion animals that are found to be positively detrimental to mankind, and we have the duty to eliminate these whenever they pose a threat to others. However, such creatures are rarely good for food.

Besides, I can't feel good about myself knowing that an animal had to die unnecessarily for me to have my dinner. Wink

_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:09 am Post subject:

My intent was to only explain the technical factors pertaining to food thaz all Wink

. However meat eating isn't PROHIBITED

1)Yes, this is the reason why we should abstain from rajasic or tamasic food - our mentality is inflicted

2)ACTUALLY if the killing is done at an extremely fast rate (that is chopping the head off with one strike) - it is still okay. This is what sikhs do in regard to eating meat - however they say that the sin is inflicted upon you if i'm not mistaken...
This is also the reason they strongly oppose muslims for their style of slaughter that involves cutting an artery near the throat and let all blood seep from the body of the animal while chanting words of qu'ran (the chanting is not to induce sin from what i heard).

3)Problem is - most of these benifits that we gain from these animals involves their slaughter Very Happy

Shishya · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:00 am Post subject:

Namaste PD,

(I hope you don't mind the split. I really do want to continue this discussion, though. Wink

)

Don't worry, I didn't take you comments in a bad way. And I agreed, eating meat, like many things, is not expressly prohibited in the Vedas. However, there are enough solid warnings against it to make us think twice before doing it.

1) I think we agree on the sattvic-issue. Very Happy

2) Even if the killing is done quickly, I don't think it can be painless. That sounds like something we tell ourselves to ease our conscience. And what prevents us from applying the same standard to humans? Should a murderer receive a lesser punishment for killing their victim in a 'painless' way?

Besides, how many meat eaters actually slaughter their own animals? And how many are aware of the conditions the animals are often kept in prior to their being butchered? If you've ever been to a modern industrial chicken farm, then I doubt you would ever buy chicken from a supermarket.

3) That depends upon how we look at the situation. Yes, leather, fur, feathers, fat, bone, horn, etc. can usually only be obtained by killing an animal. Yet this is to view the animals as material objects. I was referring more to their value as living organisms - which is usually not recognized by modern industry. For example, chickens and other 'edible' birds eat crop-damaging insects and produce highly fertile manure. Goats keep hedges trimmed and fields free of seedlings while producing great-tasting milk. And rabbits...well rabbits aren't really good for much, but they make great pets! Laughing

I guess if you really want to eat meat, then there is nothing that can stop you. But if it's not necessary for our survival, I don't see how we can do it and feel good about ourselves. That's my main point, I guess.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:04 am Post subject:

Hiten · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:37 am Post subject:

Namaste

I myself gave up eating meat, based on the teachings of Arya Samaj.

Swamiji has written a great quote which we can translate in the context of eating animals or not......."He alone can fitly be called a man who being strong protects the weak"

Therefore it is our duty to uphold righteous.

But then again, a meat eater can argue that if everyone became a vegetarian would there be enough food in the world for everyone to eat?
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Regards, Hiten

Aum Shantih Shantih Shantih

Shyena · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:06 am Post subject:

Vegetarianism has been proved to yield more food than non-vegetarianism Smile

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

I had cut back alot over the last few years. During my pregnancies...i couldn't eat any meat. I was a pure vegetarian before i got married. Where i live we don't have any vegetables for indian cooking. I have few that i live on like brocolli, cauliflower, frozen ochro, frozen spinach and butternut squash. I am sick of them, but i use shrimp sometimes to make it different taste.

I eat eggs....and shrimp. I bought some mason jars and a new deep freezer...so when my kids are gone to their dad's, i cook alot of indian food and freeze it. My children loves chicken and my mother-in-law cooks 2 meals per day non-vegge....so when they come by me, i makes more veggie stuff. Its not hard for me to cut back because i was a vegetarian in Guyana.
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Namaste!

(1) If you can imagine it, you can achieve it; if you can dream it, you can become it. William Arthur Ward

(2) The self is not something ready-made, but something in continuous formation through choice of action.John Dewey:

(3) Andre Gide: Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

Shishya · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

There are literally hundreds of websites which document the cruelty of industrial farming. One such site can be viewed here.

But there is a warning, which I have lifted from their site:

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

Okay this is not right.I looked at the first pic and i couldn't take it no more. We need to aware the freedom fighting world so called by president Bush.....and other countries as well.
_________________
Namaste!

(1) If you can imagine it, you can achieve it; if you can dream it, you can become it. William Arthur Ward

(2) The self is not something ready-made, but something in continuous formation through choice of action.John Dewey:

(3) Andre Gide: Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.

Shishya · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:00 pm Post subject:

Namaste Sunita,

I agree completely. Industrial farming is positively evil. These animals are being kept in hideous conditions and are treated with disrespect bordering on contempt. And we call ourselves civilized? Confused

_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shavaun · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:23 am Post subject:

Namaste,

I don't think a person needs a religion or grotesque photographs to abstain from eating meat.

Just observing the body's reaction from a vegetarian vs. a non-vegetarian should be enough.

Shavaun

Devo · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:28 am Post subject:

Namaste,

Every individual is different.

Some may be comfortable learning and acting upon a thought with the help of others. Whilst some may be comfortable with a self-evaluation, inorder to acknowledge what changes their body may be going through when comparing healthy lifestyle that that of an unhealty one.

Namaste,
Devo.

Shishya · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject:

Namaste Shavaun,

Ayush · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject:

One who partakes of human flesh, the flesh of a horse or of another animal, and deprives others of milk by slaughtering cows, O King, if such a fiend does not desist by other means, then you should not hesitate to cut off his head.
Rig Veda Samhita 10.87.16

Those noble souls who practice meditation and other yogic ways, who are ever careful about all beings, who protect all animals, are the ones who are actually serious about spiritual practices.
Atharva Veda Samhita 19.48.5

You must not use your God-given body for killing God's creatures, whether they are human, animal or whatever.
Yajur Veda Samhita 12.32

The purchaser of flesh performs himsa (violence) by his wealth; he who eats flesh does so by enjoying its taste; the killer does himsa by actually tying and killing the animal. Thus, there are three forms of killing: he who brings flesh or sends for it, he who cuts off the limbs of an animal, and he who purchases, sells or cooks flesh and eats it—all of these are to be considered meat-eaters.
Mahabharata, Anu. 115.40

He who desires to augment his own flesh by eating the flesh of other creatures lives in misery in whatever species he may take his birth.
Mahabharata, Anu. 115.47

BUT :

"He who wishes that a son should be born to him who would be a reputed scholar, frequenting the assemblies and speaking delightful words, would study all the Vedas and attain a full term of life, should have rice cooked with the meat of a vigorous bull or one more advanced in years, and he and his wife should eat it with clarified butter. Then they would be able to produce such a son."

~Brhadaranyaka Upanisad, Kanva recension 6.4.18

It must be noted that the last quote only talks about people who are expecting a child or planning to have a child.

Mitra · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:43 am Post subject:

The Vedas refer to the cow as Aghnya - the one which should not be killed or violated. So the Upanishad qoute runs against the teachings of Vedas. Upanishads are not revealed texts.
Also , Dont we know that how a child turns out depends on so many factors - biology, environment, emotional security ....verses which prescribe such silver bullet recipes for wonders should always be taken with a sack of salt.

http://www.vegetariansocietymauritius.org/site18.htm
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Namaste
Manurbhava

Ayush · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OMXfBRK5DU

This is a video by an Islamic scholar who is trying to prove that non-vegetarian food is allowed for Hindus too.

He quotes from Manu Smriti, Rig Veda and the Mahabharata.

I don't really care what Manu Smriti has to say but can someone confirm the quotes from Rig Veda and Mahabharata? I don't have copies of the scriptures.

Shishya · Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:31 am Post subject:

Namaste Ayush,

I haven't taken the time to watch the video more than once (the quality is rather poor and it's hard to make out the references), but I can comment on the first Vedic reference he makes:

Rig Veda 10:16:10 states that 'agni' is the 'deva' which 'consumes flesh'. I remember reading somewhere that this is simply a reference to the crematory fire used to dispose of the dead body. The fire consumes the flesh of the corpse in order to return the contituent parts back to their respective elements. I would have to do some more checking, but I'm certain the other references are to be explained in a similar fashion.

However, do not forget that Swamiji already performed an in-depth analysis of the Vedas and came to the conclusion that the meat of animals is unfit food for a noble individual. Read the Satyarth Prakash and most questions like this should be resolved - regardless of what any Muslim scholars have to say about it. Wink

_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Ayush · Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:51 am Post subject:

Shishya · Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:18 pm Post subject:

Namaste Ayush,

Please refer to the beginning of this thread.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Mitra · Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject:

Just as an aside - I read an interesting ,and funny tidbit from a book about the differences between herbivores and carnivores. Out of the many anatomic and physiological differences I found this one -
All meat eating animals lap up the water with their tongues . While herbivores drink water using the lips or muzzles.
I felt it was a very observant person who must have noted this .
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Namaste
Manurbhava

Prabhat · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:11 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

i have a few family members, who change to vegies. and the became wevy sick. docters told them that the have to start eating meat, others wise the will become very sick and there imumsysteem cold go bad. so they started to eat 1 time in a month, and now they can handle it.

so is this a kind of getting the body clean??
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Shishya · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject:

Namaste Prabhat,

It is typical for someone who eats meat and then switches to a vegetarian diet to become ill at the beginning. The body is getting rid of all the toxins, hormones and bad ojas that have accumulated over the years. (Babies, for example, don't have this problem. My oldest daughter is almost 2 years old and has never tasted meat. I can say with absolute certainty that she has never been sick.) However, simply eating vegetables is not enough. The science of Ayurveda explains that all of us have a particular body constitution (a predominant dosha) which in part determines how we react to our environment and what kind of food we should eat. As long as one follows a solid, dosha-based ayurvedic diet, there should be no health problems whatsoever. In fact, one's health should improve greatly over time.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shavaun · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject:

Namaste,