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Shyena
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Joined: 27 Jun 2006
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Location: Hyderabad, AP
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 Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:48 pm Post subject: Understand Geeta |
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Namaste,
If we understand geeta to be non-contradictory to vedic knowledge, yet examine it under the light of vedas, how are we supposed to understand these verses:
Chapter 8
24. "Those who know the Supreme Brahman pass away from the world during the influence of the fiery god, in the light, at an auspicious moment, during the fortnight of the moon and the six months when the sun travels in the north."
25. "The mystic who passes away from this world during the smoke, the night, the moonless fortnight, or in the six months when the sun passes to the south, or who reaches the moon planet, again comes back."
BTW; the translations are from As It Is
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pappukishore
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: Understand Geetha |
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Namaste PD,
24. The persons knowledgeable of the ultimate truth who pass from this world by Agnih the demigod of fire, by jyoith the demigod of light,by ahah the demigod of day time, Suklah the demigod of waxing moon, uttatarayanm the demigod for the six months of the suns progression between winter and summer they attain the ultimate truth.
25.One perfecting the science of uniting the individual consciousness with the ultimate consciousness who passes from this world by dhumah the demigod of smoke, by ratrih the demigod of night,by krsnah the demigod of waning moon, by daksinyanam the preceeding demigod for suns progression from summer to winter after reaching the heavenly illuminated lunar spheres under goes rebirth.
Last edited by pappukishore on Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Shishya
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1985
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste,
Well, as even Swamiji said, the Gita is not exactly in harmony with the Vedas. There is a great wealth of Vedic Wisdom contained in it, but there are also interpolations and such.
As for the passages you mention, I have never really understood what that is supposed to mean. I'm still trying to get information on the Gita from Dayanand Gurukul...
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Namaste,
Shishya
ॐ
ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads |
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Shyena
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Joined: 27 Jun 2006
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Location: Hyderabad, AP
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste Kishore,
I'm however convinced as Arya Samaj explains that 'devaas' are not manifestations of god; they're names of the same self; or animate and inanimate bodies like fire, etc etc...
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Shyena
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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My vain attempts of understanding it would be:
Vasus are described as abode of souls, this includes the elements and planets - the hymn is translated in such a fashion by swamiji as well.
'agni' here might be reference to fire in the sense, the soul resides temporarily in the fire. The rest of the verse becomes to understand that way though. For those who are actually interested, these are the verses:
24. agnir jyotir ahaH SuklaH
SaN-mAsA uttarAyaNam
tatra prayAtA gacchanti
brahma brahma-vidoh janAH
25. dhUmo rAtris tathA kRSNaH
SaN-mAsA dakSiNAyanam
tatra cAndramasaM jyotir
yogI prApya nivartate
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Mitra
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Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:56 am Post subject: |
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Namaste PD,
Since you are in Hyderabad, I think it would be easy for you to get literature by Pandit Gopdev Shaastri Ji. He wrote in Telugu. I was very little when he used to give lectures on the Geetha which were attended by scores. of people. He was the authority on all such matters.
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Shyena
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Joined: 27 Jun 2006
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Location: Hyderabad, AP
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste Mitra,
I didn't see your reply. For some reason all the posts appear unread, maybe I didn't read it yesterday night when I was extremely sleepy...
Anyway; thanks for the information ^_^. So is this panditji is scientific in his interpretations? In the sense, are they arya samajik?
As its in telugu I'll certainly have difficulty because I know only reading telugu but cannot interpret complex words. Maybe I'll have to keep asking my mother each and every word 
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pappukishore
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste Shyena,
I think you are nitin right, rather than going for books i think we have digital media available for, and with good translation i will soon post it to you. Forgive me if i make a delay. |
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Shyena
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, this is PD/Nithin. And its okay, I can wait ^_^
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Prabhat
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Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Understand Geetha |
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| pappukishore wrote: | Namaste PD,
24. The persons knowledgeable of the ultimate truth who pass from this world by Agnih the demigod of fire, by jyoith the demigod of light,by ahah the demigod of day time, Suklah the demigod of waxing moon, uttatarayanm the demigod for the six months of the suns progression between winter and summer they attain the ultimate truth.
25.One perfecting the science of uniting the individual consciousness with the ultimate consciousness who passes from this world by dhumah the demigod of smoke, by ratrih the demigod of night,by krsnah the demigod of waning moon, by daksinyanam the preceeding demigod for suns progression from summer to winter after reaching the heavenly illuminated lunar spheres under goes rebirth. |
Namaste Papa,
wel you called 9 demi gods name, thats the differend i think
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Prabhat
Last edited by Prabhat on Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pappukishore
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste Prabhat,
I think the difference in the two verses were one speaks of attaining the ultimate Truth or Moksha and the other speaks of coming back to life.[/quote] |
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Prabhat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste Pappu.
no problems yaar.
but still there ar 9 dimi gods name in your text, and as you know we only know 1 god.
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pappukishore
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste Prabhat,
Then in this case 1==9 i'm sure that i'm weak in my maths  |
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Prabhat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| pappukishore wrote: | Namaste Prabhat,
Then in this case 1==9 i'm sure that i'm weak in my maths |
Namaste P,
i didnt say that. i just telling you what i read. and maby i dont understeand english that well 
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Prabhat |
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pappukishore
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste Prabhat,
I agree with you point that god is one but i also belive that he is 1 in many and many in one But what i said in the previous post 1==9 was just for fun i did'nt mean to hurt you sorry for if i made a mistake. |
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Shyena
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Joined: 27 Jun 2006
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Location: Hyderabad, AP
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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According to Swami Dayananda, Devaas doesn't just mean god.
The 33 devaas spoken of in vedas are:
12 adityas - solar months
11 rudras - our soul and 10 pranas
8 vasus - suns, planets, fire, etc... which are abodes of souls
indra - the pervasive electricity
prajapathi - the yajna
Many other devaas are similiar in context.
So the devaas is not really a problem. The problem is interpretation..
BTW; prabhat can you please remove the bright-cyan colour you kept for the text 'dhumah demigod of smoke'?
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Prabhat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste PD,
i have changed it for you
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Mitra
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Namaste Shyena,
Yes, Gopadev Ji was the arya samaj scholar and yogi ,who was educated at the Lahore gurukul and then came back to AP ,who translated almost all major vedic works into telugu . He had established an ashram in Kuchipudi,Tenali. Several scholars today are his disciples. But be forewarned his teugu is very archaic. You would need your moms help definitely.
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Shyena
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Location: Hyderabad, AP
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste Mitra,
That means I may have to give it up completely  I have trouble understanding layman telugu, let alone archaic! I think I'll have to start reading chandamama's from now... ^_^
Anyway; I found this old book called Gita Explained by Swami Jnaneshwar, which belongs to my late great grandfather; and this is what the book says:
| Quote: |
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Those who, having experienced Brahman, come to the end of the life with the radiance of vital energy during the bright half of the month, during daytime and in any of the six months of Uttarayana (from about middle of January to middle of July) owing to the advantage of these propitious circumstances, attain Brahman. The conjuction of these circumstances is important. It leads one to straight path of salvation. This is regarded as the better time for death. I will also describe to you the unfavourable moment of death. Unfavourable death is that, in which towards the end, cough and delirium predominate and cause darkness in the heart. The senses become stiffened, memory confused, mind unsteady and breathing difficult. With the passing of internal energy or fire, there s a cloak over all knowledge. It is like the moon covered up by clouds in the rainy season, when it is neither dark nor light. In the heart, there is neither death nor life. A percentage becomes a cipher and awaits extinction. So clouded are the mind, intelligence and the senses, that whatever has been acquired from birth is practically wiped out. When one loses, what one has got in hand, it is useless to discuss the question of acquiring more. This inside state of the body is paralleled by the darkness of the month and the night outside. Such a situation means certain rebirth and no salvation. Being a yogi, he may rise as far as the world of the moon, but he must come back.
These two paths are eternal. One is a straight one and the other, a roundabout one. You have been told of these, in order that you may be warmed. Who will want to swim across, if he has got a good boat? Who will go by the by-lanes, if the highway is open to him? Who will leave nectar, when he can distinguish between nectar and poison? |
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savitri
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Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:56 am Post subject: Ungateful Mr. Sri Krishna |
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Most of the verses in bhagvad-gita are taken from Rig-Veda & other ancient sanskrit texts. Saddest thing is that Sri Krishna pretended as if they were all his original ideas. He can be sued of plagiarism. Bhagvad-gita is a distortion of great ancient Vedic Truths. Thanks. Namastey
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Shyena
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Ungateful Mr. Sri Krishna |
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| savitri wrote: | | Most of the verses in bhagvad-gita are taken from Rig-Veda & other ancient sanskrit texts. Saddest thing is that Sri Krishna pretended as if they were all his original ideas. He can be sued of plagiarism. Bhagvad-gita is a distortion of great ancient Vedic Truths. Thanks. Namastey |
Krishna never said that these were his own ideas, he instead said that the knowledge revealed many years ago to vivasvan, ikshvaku and then manu, he is now revealing it to arjuna. Vedas are not copyrighted material, they're absolute truth. Therefore a true seeker of knowledge will come to the same conclusion as put out in vedas. It is unfair to accuse him of plagiarism, that is like copyrighting addition and subtraction.
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Shishya
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste Shyena,
I dug out my copy of the commentary to the Gita by Paramahansa Yogananda (ISBN: 0-87612-031-1). Here's part of what he says about this passage:
| Quote: | (23) I shall now declare unto thee, O Best of the Bharatas (Arjuna), the path, traversing which at the time of death, yogis attain freedom; and also the path wherein there is rebirth.
(24) Fire, light, daytime, the bright half of the lunar month, the six months of the northern course of the sun – pursuing this path at the time of departure, the knowers of God go to God.
(25) Smoke, nighttime, the dark half of the lunar month, the six months of the southern course of the sun – he who follows this path obtains only the lunar light and then returns to earth.
(26) These two paths for exiting from the world are reckoned eternal. The way of light leads to release, the way of darkness leads to rebirth.
These mysterious stanzas, woefully misinterpreted by nearly all commentators, in reality contain symbolic references to the science of yoga. They describe the opening of the spiritual eye, the awakening of the cerebrospinal centers, and the ascension of life force and consciousness through them to Cosmic Consciousness and liberation in Spirit of the yogi who follows the ‘way of light’. And, on the contrary, they describe also the descent or return to body consciousness or rebirth of those yet unable to open fully all the cerebrospinal doors that lead ultimately to Spirit. Liberation, freeing the soul from the physical, astral, and causal bodies, is the purport of these verses. The ponderous scriptures of the Rishis have defined in veiled terms the labyrinth of the soul’s descent and ascent. Krishna has here stated this portion of the yoga science succinctly for the comprehending Arjuna – the advanced yogi-devotee. The rudiments are as follows:
(Here follow 4 full pages of detailed commentary to the verses, explaining the symbolic interpretation of each of the words. If you can get your hands on a copy, it’s worth a read. But it’s too much for me to type here. However, I can summarize it by saying that verse 26 contains the key to understanding the whole section. The lists given in 24 and 25 are meant to indicate the diametrical opposition of the path of knowledge or ‘light’ verses the path of ignorance or ‘darkness’.)
A literal interpretation of these verses, i.e. that the yogi must die in the daytime as well as in a luminous fortnight occurring within the six-month period of the northern passage of the sun, is senseless. An illumined yogi leaves his body instantaneously at any time he chooses during the day or night, the bright or the dark lunar fortnight, the northern or the southern course of the sun! He does not have to consult the brainless stars for an auspicious hour. Since time began, never has there been an ‘inauspicious’ hour for man to awake from delusion! |
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Namaste,
Shishya
ॐ
ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads |
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Shyena
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Joined: 27 Jun 2006
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Location: Hyderabad, AP
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste Shishya,
No need to type any further. Generally I need the hint, I try to figure out the rest on my own. As I assumed at one time, it can be an allusion to chakras...
| Quote: | | A]n illumined yogi leaves his body instantaneously at any time he chooses during the day or night, the bright or the dark lunar fortnight, the northern or the southern course of the sun! |
This was the fundamental thing that troubled me in accepting jnanes'vari. I found another commentary as well called Yatharth Geeta; where he complies with arya samajik thought to certain extent that god is monotheistic and formless, that krishna is an enlightened yogeshvar. He mainly complies with the upanishads however and interprets great parts of geeta in a symbolic fashion, being a message to humanity. Of course, deification of the guru is extant, there being very few figures who have been potrayed in their true atmic beauty. Anyway the site for this geeta is www.yatharthgeeta.com. I think I'll try order this, because I wish to know about the siva-visnu-sakti** isvara and krishna as a yogeshvar.
That's a great help Shishya ^_^
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** - I dont accept the idea of three aspects of god which are explained as brahma, vishnu, maheshvara; but instead understand him to be bliss-bringing, pervasive and creative. Creation is never masculine according to me...
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Mitra
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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There is a good booklet by Sri Sandhyavandanm Srinivas Rao in Telugu called Yogeshwara Srikrishnudu. It has some great research .
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Shyena
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste Mitra ji,
Can you give us an idea of what is spoken of in this booklet?
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Namaste 
