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Shishya
Administrator
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1985
Location: Europe
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 Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: Are the Vedas perfect? |
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Namaste All,
I know that I am usually one to try and answer rather than ask questions, but I have one question in particular that has been on my mind and I would like to see if anyone can help me out. Or perhaps it will spark an interesting discussion...
Are the Vedas perfect?
Before you answer, let me give you a sample of what has been going through my mind:
We know that God is perfect. And we know that God's Wisdom (Ved) is perfect also. But are the Vedas a perfectly accurate record of God's Wisdom? Well, the Vedas were revealed by God to four Rishis at the beginning of this cycle of creation. The Vedas we have today are the result of their inspiration from God. But how do we know that the Rishis received and transmitted everything in a perfect manner? Are Rishis perfect?
I would tend to answer that last question with 'no', seeing how it is human nature to err, and the only perfect being is God. Yes, there are truly enlightened souls. But in order for the Vedas we have today to be the exact replica of the Wisdom given by God to man, there must be perfect souls who do not make mistakes.
Is such a thing possible? If not, then how can we be absolutely sure that the Vedas are correct?
Any ideas?
_________________
Namaste,
Shishya
ॐ
ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads |
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Prabhat
Platinum Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1171
Location: Holland, The Hague
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Namaste Shis.
this gives more questions.
if the Vedas are not correct, are the Rishis correct, and is there a God.
and what is enlightenment exactly. people in love are also enlight in a form. they can fight the world. people getting compliments are also in heaven for a few moments.
i really dont know?
but if i may do as the islam brothers, the koran is the word of god, and no one is greater than god.
so i just think we have to do the same.
Namaste
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Namaste,
Prabhat |
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Arya Putra
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 137
Vaada Skills: +2
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Shishya wrote:
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We know that God is perfect. And we know that God's Wisdom (Ved) is perfect also. But are the Vedas a perfectly accurate record of God's Wisdom? Well, the Vedas were revealed by God to four Rishis at the beginning of this cycle of creation. The Vedas we have today are the result of their inspiration from God. But how do we know that the Rishis received and transmitted everything in a perfect manner? Are Rishis perfect?
I would tend to answer that last question with 'no', seeing how it is human nature to err, and the only perfect being is God. Yes, there are truly enlightened souls. But in order for the Vedas we have today to be the exact replica of the Wisdom given by God to man, there must be perfect souls who do not make mistakes.
Is such a thing possible? If not, then how can we be absolutely sure that the Vedas are correct?
Any ideas? |
The Wisdom of God (the Vedas) is not replicated anywhere. That which is eternal (as the Vedas are) cannot be replicated. Can God be replicated? Can souls be replicated? Can Prakriti be replicated? The answer in each case is NO, because all of these are beginningless (uncaused), and anything that exists by the process of replication is the effect of a cause (in this case, the cause would be the act of replicating).
Ved Mantras can be understood as the ‘thoughts of God.’ Just as God’s qualities are eternal and unchangeable, likewise God’s ‘thoughts,’ in the form of the Vedas, are eternal and unchangeable. Similarly, the innumerable souls (you, I, and everyone else) are eternal and unchangeable in our essence. In other words, since we are eternal, our soul-nature is also eternal and unchangeable; similarly, the laws of Nature (Prakriti) are also eternal and unchangeable since Prakriti is eternal and unchangeable.
The changes we observe in ourselves are changes in the mind being observed by the Jivatman (soul embodied in Prakriti). Our Real Self (Atman) does not change, but it is the nature of our Real Self (it is our Atmic-nature) to become embodied from time to time to play the Game of Life (i.e., to experience Creation). When a person puts on a uniform and steps onto the playing field to play the sport of soccer or football, they DO NOT cease to be the person they were before putting on the uniform and playing the game. Naturally (Prakritically) they will play the game with full attention to the game, they will abide by the rules of play, acknowledge the boundaries, and they will play to win even though there is no real ‘meaning’ or ‘purpose’ to the game—after all, it is just a game, it is NOT reality; it is just really a game. In other words, it is only real in the sense that it is a real game, but it does not change or modify who the players are in real life: for example, the ‘father of Askok’ might be a linebacker in the game, but whether on the field or off the field he never stops being the ‘father of Ashok’. Likewise, we remain Atman (Pure Consciousness) whether embodied as living souls and playing in the field of Prakriti, or not embodied. Of course, the significance of the Game of Life is that when we win over our mind, ego, and negative tendencies (i.e., when we conquer Ignorance) we (the living self) get to experience Moksha, which is absolutely incomparable.
The above paragraph establishes the unchangeable nature of Atman. Its nature is that it is changeless but is embodied from time to time as the Jivatman to play in the Game of Creation. Since this is the soul’s eternal nature, it has always been embodied from time to time and will continue to do so in the future too (i.e., the soul will come back to play another ‘Game’ again even after enjoying the state of Moksha), because this is its nature to do so.
Likewise, Prakriti, is unchangeable but its effects (brought about by means of the influence of Atman and Paramatman) are certainly changeable and multifarious, and are observed both in the outside world and world inside ourselves.
[The intention of the above paragraphs is to show that Atman is in fact perfect (remember: Om Purnam Adah Purnam Idam. . . . ) and is therefore a fit receptacle for the Vedas, which are also perfect.]
The Vedas are NOT an effect because they are inherent in the Creator. Of course, paper, books, and sounds made with vocal chords are effects; these effects are produced by human beings and are employed to record the Vedas.
The same Perfect Being (GOD) Who created the Creation and breathed life into it, also revealed His Wisdom to the pure-minded Rishis who are qualified to receive it (by virtue of their previous good karmas in previous cycles of Creation). These Rishis (who are embodied souls) need not be perfect to receive the perfect knowledge (Wisdom) of the Supreme Being. Since those souls were absolutely motiveless (at least during the period while the knowledge was revealed to them), they received the knowledge through their Pure Soul (Atman) without any adulteration (which was also assured by virtue of the nature of the divine Sanskrit language which was the vehicle of that Wisdom).
| Quote: |
. . . how can we be absolutely sure that the Vedas are correct?
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How can a father be absolutely sure he loves his son (or daughter), or a husband his wife, or a wife her husband? We know ‘we love’ because we are the love, it is a part of who we are and there is no doubt about it. In the same way, when a Ved Mantra is realized through direct perception, one perceives its divine origin (one realizes its origins are beyond the mind).
I have not read all the four Vedas. In fact, I am not at all a Sanskrit scholar. I have studied deeply only a handful of Mantras. There is soooooooo much to be learned in just a single mantra. (Perhaps that is why in the Vedas we see the names of certain Rishis associated with the mantras, indicating that the Rishis were ‘seers’ of specific Mantras only, and that too only after having spent a considerable amount of time investigating the Mantra’s deep meaning.) Meditating on these Mantras over and over, again and again (preferably under the guidance of a True Guru), one gains insights which alter the focal length of one’s perception. We begin to see ‘from here to Eternity,’ which means we break out of our little shell of ego and the limited mentality of personality, and we get a taste of what is Real and Permanent. That ‘realness’ and ‘permanence’ frees us from self-doubt. We become established in Atam-Stiti, the soul-status, which is accompanied with Atam-vishwas (the soul-confidence), which is far superior to the ordinary self-confidence born of ego and the fulfillment of egotistic images.
Prabhat wrote:
| Quote: | | and what is enlightenment exactly. |
Enlightenment is the state of the Jivatman (embodied self) freed from Ignorance. Ignorance is tri-fold: ignorance of this world (of Prakriti), ignorance of the nature of the self (both Jivatman and Atman), and ignorance of the Supreme Self (GOD). Similarly, ‘enlightenment’ can be understood as tri-fold when we consider it as the removal of each of these elements of Ignorance., but in fact, only when Ignorance is completely dispelled are we truly Enlightened. This is why ‘Enlightenment’ is really One, and the one who is enlightened is the ‘Enlightened One.’
OM
Your well-wisher,
Arya Putra |
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bhavesh
Junior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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There can be two ways to verify whether the Vedas are absolutely correct or not: (i) To rely on Rishi's declaration or Apta-pramans - verbal authority. (ii) To personally examine the Vedas on scientific & analytical basis and if nothing is found contrary to truth, one has to conclude that the Vedas are correct. I don't see any other way.
= Bhavesh Merja |
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