Arya Samaj

Shishya

'Fake shrine' Inquiry in Kashmir
by
BBC

The authorities in Indian-administered Kashmir have ordered an inquiry into malpractice allegations at one of the holiest shrines of the Hindu faith.

Hindu pilgrims to the Amarnath shrine say that a fake ice stalagmite has been installed at the site because the existing one is too small.

The ice stalagmite is revered by Hindus as a symbol of Shiva, their God of war.

Every July and August thousands of Hindu pilgrims defy threats from Muslim militants to visit the remote shrine.

(Continues...)

Shishya · Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject:

Far Smaller

Correspondents say that the stalagmite resembles a fertility lingam - or phallus - which is said to form naturally each year from water that freezes.

Governor SK Sinha - who is also the chairman of Amarnath Shrine Board - said on Thursday that he had asked a retired high court judge to investigate allegations that a man-made stalagmite was placed in the cave after the naturally occurring one failed to materialise.

The BBC's Altaf Hussain in Srinagar says that this has been blamed on a shortage of snow combined with the wrong temperatures.

Our correspondent says that a naturally-occurring ice stalagmite has now begun to appear, but it is far smaller than in recent years.

In June, a spokesman for the shrine board denied allegations made by the pilgrims that a fake shrine had been installed at the caves.

He said that the board was not a commercial organisation looking for profit, but only a facilitator to regulate and provide logistic support for a smooth pilgrimage.

He said there was no question of "trampling over the sanctity of the shrine" or playing with the religious sentiments of devotees.

Earlier, a key Hindu priest associated with the shrine expressed serious concerns over the reports that a fake shrine had been built from snow brought from higher ground.

He said that if they were true, it would be an act of sacrilege.

(Source)

Shyena · Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:03 am Post subject:

Two things... my ishta-devata(favoured visualisation of That) being Shiva, let me correct a few things:
1)Shiva aint a god of war - he is god of destruction. Not human destruction, but the cosmic dissolution; of the trinity as described in maitri upanishad.
2)Lingam not a phallus -_- Only perverts see it so and those who dont know about it think it is true. There is no evidence of phallus idol-worship in India..

Prabhat · Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:36 am Post subject:

Namaste PD,

the Shiv Lingam is seen as the phallus, all over the world, even the sanataans here in holland say this as well.
as far the translations in dutch, it means creation. all human creation begings with birth of humans, so it is not strang people see the Shiv lingam as an penis.
_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject:

Prabhat · Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject:

Mitra · Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:38 am Post subject:

Hi PD,
Could you tell me what your view is about the lingam?
According to you or your sources of knowledge, what does it stand for?
Thanks,
Mitra.

Prabhat · Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject:

Shyena · Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject:

Linga in simple words means 'symbol'. It is the simplest as well as extremely universal idol. Some sources that'll help you get an idea of what i'm talking about:
http://members.aol.com/ukumbar/vsny/TableOfContents.htm
http://www.geocities.com/lamberdar/agni.html

Though the articles are not similiar to arya samajist thought; one can modify the view to suit the viewpoint of arya samaj.

The fact that there is no evidence of phallus worship should first off be enough. The problem came from taantriks who interpret everything as sexual. They interpret the symbol aum as related to coitus as well - one should keep that in mind.

Also; dharana requires focus of mind upon a certain object. Now the simpler the object is; the easier is it to attain undeviated concentration. The four objects i can think of are: bindu, flame, aum, linga.

Fact is that the original shape of linga is totally black and hemispherical. An enlarged hemisphere is definitely difficult to keep your mind focussed upon - thus; it is elongated. Saivites enjoy showing non-duality of feminine and masculine principles; so equal the linga to the masculine aspect and its pedestal i.e., base as 'yoni' which means source or origin. Tantrik definitions might have perverted this. One should remember that puraanas are supposed to have come to be recently; much after the tantriks were widespread. Saivite Puraanas explain linga in a different manner[personification of the para-brahman]; this should also be kept in mind.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Mitra · Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:46 pm Post subject:

Thanks PD , that was a really new aspect you helped me understand.

So the symbolic Linga came up as a substitute for the yagna fire and now we can use it as a visualization for dhaarana. ( I find I am more comfortable visualizing the jyothi itself ).

The problem with symbols is we get more caught up in them and forget the original for which it is a symbol. Look, what a controversy in Amarnath!

And one question....do you happen to know how the jyothirlingas are shaped? Are they not like the usual shaped ones ? If not , then wow , what a rebuttal it would be for the phallus worship theorists...

I hope atleast the people who worship shivalingas know what they are doing. The taantrik version is more widespread than the understanding of the linga as a symbol of yagna. someone should ask them. I bet they will be squeamish

Wink

Shyena · Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject:

Namaste mitra,
No probs Wink

About visualising the jyothi and linga - all I've noted is that whenever i keep a linga in front of me and compare it with a jyoti; the jyothi can make my eyes water at times but a linga is not uncomfortable to the eye and i'm immersed in god-thought much easier than a jyothi...

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject:

Namaste all,

how many holy places do we have, and i mean for the islam, sanataans.cristian, jews, budist etc, ect,

and did something happened after the miracle, or was it just one time thing
_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Deepan Abisuriya · Junior Member Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 66

Namaste,

The shiva linga, as it was said above depicts the whole cosmos, the universality concept. It is said that the lingas are found all over the world, uncarved by human hands. But they just originate in its pure form. This was not the object of worship, nor the comparison to pallus. It was seen as the miraculous representation of the cosmos on earth. It symbolised the all existing matter in the universe.

It also represents the thought of 'nothing' exists forever. The best object to meditate and to concentrate. As idol worship was not done in vedic times and even in the Bible , these stones were symbols of respect and honour. They were symbols to be anointed to depict a great event (in the book of Genesis in the Bible). And it was also believed that the stones, where ever naturally found , the God of the cosmos has a affinity towards that place. And the place was revered and kept for worship, not that the stone was worshiped.

It was only called linga, later due to the puranic representation of shiva with it, became shiva-linga. The word 'Shiva', as per the vedas is the personification of the destry to create power, or to be precise -regenerating power of the universe- the expansion and contraction laws of cosmology.

The stones shape is verymuch miraculous, I read about the mystery in Shivapuri. Many claim to have seen it.

There are two enigmatic stones resting opposite the local shrine. One of them weighs 55 kilograms, the other one is 41 kilograms. If eleven men touch the bigger stone, and nine men touch the smaller stone, if they all chant the magic phrase, which is carved on one of the walls of the shrine, the two stones will raise two meters up in the air and will hang there for two seconds, as if there is no gravitation at all. A lot of European and Asian scientists and researchers have studied the phenomenon of levitating stones of Shivapur.

I think my thought made some sense to the duscussion.

Deepan.

Prabhat · Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:18 am Post subject:

Shyena · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject:

There are many things media tries not to focus on, otherwise defame it. Take for example, the drinking idols...
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Mitra · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject:

Hi PD,

I didnt quite understand what you meant by your last statement....the media doesnt focus on some things....thats ok . then what about the drinking idols? There was a hue and cry about that and as far as I remember the media showed the frenzy of the devotees and also the explanations about surface tension and capillary mechanism.
So what do you mean when you say the media defamed the drinking idols? Do you believe the idols really did drink milk ?
I for one tried it on all the stone objects in my home and all of them drank the milk.

Shyena · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject:

As you said - all of them drank milk. But the media says that it is the devotees who are too blind to see milk which is supposed to drip from the tip of the mouth according to the capillary action theory...
A sidenote, its not just with stone statues... its with any statue. A friend of mine dipped a whole glass of milk into the brass idol's tip; and the milk is supposed to have dripped away somehow. I hope I'm clear as to what I mean by defamation here - I accept it as a scientific phenomenon, but the explanation provided is outright stupid. Last but not least, moral undesirability aside - why shouldn't idols drink milk? The answer they give is 'but its stupid!' - Truth is that society still exists in dogmas and suppression of individuality still continues in india - albeit in a veiled form.

Oh, btw the statues didn't drink milk at my place.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Mitra · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject:

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:07 am Post subject:

Namaste drinking idols,

we had that in holland also, so what happend did they stop drinking. and do really think it was God doing this.
_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Shishya · Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:14 am Post subject:

Namaste All,

I think all the fuss that surrounds supposed 'miracles' is a sign that people have turned a blind eye to the miracle of creation. Why do we need to see a levitating stone to believe in God? Do we not live on a massive stone that is swirling through space at an incredible speed already? This very universe is itself a miracle of the highest order, and yet because we see it every day we grow bored with it and want to see something 'really spectacular'. We are literally surrounded by the miraculous, supported by the Will of God, and we want instead for Him to do some parlour tricks like a stage magician or something. Rolling Eyes

_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:21 am Post subject:

Namaste Shis,

i agree bro, you are right.

but i still would like to know how they did it, making the stone absorb all the milk.

you know me, i have to know bit by bit. Wink

_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject:

Namaste all,
These miracles are explained to be the by-product of the powers attained by a yogi, by which he is not to be distracted. Miracles are needed at times when argument from design is not satisfactory. For me, neither design nor miracles were sufficient to help me snap out of my totally agnostic ennui stage.

The problem with capillary action theory is that it requires the milk to be 'spilt' onto the li'l opening of the mouth. However the devotee is supposed to be more fascinated with the disappearing milk than the dripping one. However when the milk is rather 'sucked' or the like by a metal or a marble statue, it is a fallible explanation. I haven't seen the milk drip in these cases. I accept the explanation my mother read in some magazine that was actually some yajna by yogis in himalayas at that time [...]

I consider it foolishness to say that idols drinking milk or levitating stones are god demonstrating divinity. I instead see them as adding proof of existence of the soul - which, to be honest, is enough for me.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Prabhat · Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:55 am Post subject:

Namaste PD,
so you take it for granted that the moerties drink the milk and thats it.
and you even dont want to know how.

for me, i really want to know how and WHY. why sudenly the moerties are drinking milk, wat did happen to make them drink, whas it a warning.

Question

_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:59 am Post subject:

I said that I accept the explanation it was the result of a yajna being performed by yogi's, and that is a more viable explanation.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Prabhat · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: