Arya Samaj

Shyena

Namaste,
In the orkut "Islam v/s Hinduism" forum there was some trash being posted that muhammad was prophesised in hindu scriptures and is Kalki. (The translations were terrifyingly awful; even griffith's translations were better):

However; I dont think this verse has any other explanation
"This abode of the angels(i think this i devaas) has eight circuits(?) and nine gates. It is unconquerable, there is eternal life in it and it is resplendent with Divine light."(Atharva Veda X, 2, 31)

I explained that this is brahma-loka (i.e., our body). The devaas being the rudras; the nine gates are mentioned in many (non arya?) scriptures as the five material and four spiritual openings of mouth, mind, thought, ears, etc... through which things enter our body.

The eight "circuits" i interpreted it as boundaries; and said these are the astral body; and the seven interpermeable loka.

The soul is immortal and can't be killed; thus unconquerable.

The "divine light" might be a reference to all-pervading self.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Shishya · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:27 am Post subject:

Namaste PD,

I think you did more or less the right thing. Take a look at this site which makes direct reference to that verse from the Atharva Veda.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:56 am Post subject:

Namaste Shishya,
I'd put it in one word - STRANGE! Swamiji was opposed to the notion of chakras.

I only remembered that there are 9 gates into the body and 8 astral bodies; so i stuck to the notion. I remember reading that karma accumulates in our body through those gates (and more i think) in jainism; and found similiarity in hinduism. Thus i mentioned them as such...

Heck; I think i better not correct that post of mine - it is best left as it is Confused

_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Shishya · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:23 am Post subject:

Namaste PD,

Where did Swamiji say that he was opposed to the notion of chakras?
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:29 am Post subject:

Namaste Shishya,
A direct reference i can give - is in the pictorial biography of swamiji that you've just posted. I read about it in the pdf version of satyarth prakash in the "various religions and sects" section.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Shishya · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:31 am Post subject:

Namaste PD,

I just went through the 11th chapter again, and still can't find a reference to chakras. Embarassed

Could you perhaps list a page reference from the .pdf?
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:37 am Post subject:

I dont have the pdf right now. have you simply tried searching for 'chakra' in the pdf..?
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Shishya · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:41 am Post subject:

Namaste PD,

Indeed I did. Chakra, Nadi, and several other related terms. However, when I came up empty handed, I also went through each page again, scanning for any kind of reference.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject:

Namaste Shishya,
In that case just take my word for it Embarassed

Dont waste your time so much on that!

Also, it was only mentioned in the title where he dealt with many sects like that of Nimbarka, Vallabha, etc...
The PDF one I found only in the pdf version that is linked in the arya samaj toolbar

Swamiji didn't refute chakras though, he instead reviled the tantrik traditions in it.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Shishya · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject:

Namaste PD,

By the way, do you have a link to the discussion you referred to above? I would be interested to take a look...
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject:

Namaste Shishya,
You can access it if you have an orkut account. If you do,
http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=3743759&tid=2486286119485179296

This thread was fun for me Razz

http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=3743759&tid=2485707789256551907
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Shishya · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject:

Namaste PD,

Apparently, you have to be invited to join that community. Sad

Regardless, how is this hymn supposed to relate to Muhammad? Confused

_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject:

Namaste Shishy,
Just send me your ID and I'll send the invitation to you Wink

"This abode of the angels(i think this i devaas) has eight circuits(?) and nine gates. It is unconquerable, there is eternal life in it and it is resplendent with Divine light."(Atharva Veda X, 2, 31)
This is supposed to be a reference to mecca.
Eight circuits mean some trees grass boundaries or whatever
Nine gates mean the nine prophets from abraham.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Shishya · Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject:

Namaste PD,

I'll send you a PM with my info...

Mecca? LOL! Surely, this must be from Hindu converts, no? I can't imagine a born Muslim going through the Atharva Veda looking for such obscure references.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject:

Namaste Shishya,
They're hindus - pandits infact. I guess they were bribed enough not to notice it says AYODHYA if it ever was a reference to muhammad. They mistranslate many hymns like that....

As for reading vedas and such : Yes there is a guy who did so. His name is Zakir Naik; an interesting character he is. He tells people that vedas are iconoclastic and monotheistic; but he says that vedas are 'pantheistic'. I dont see where his intellect lies though for he again says vedas prohibit us from worshipping elements(asambhuti) or idols(sambhuti). Although i deny this interpretation (which you've quoted as well); Arya Samajik interpretation through pluralism which is a superset (of course; zakir wouldn't dare have spoken of arya samaj) would make more sense with these verses.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Shyena · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject:

Namaste,
I think the thread is better renamed now for it doesn't really deal with muhammad. As for swamiji's reference to chakras; he said 'chakrankitas' and was referring to the taantriks for their animal behaviour.

Anyway; i've read a bit and learnt some notable points:
1)The 8 chakras referred to in the site are not so, but more likely reference to:
Muladhaara
Swadhisthan
Manipura
Surya - Chandra [present on pingala and ida nadis]
Anahata
Visuddha
Ajna

Sahasrara Chakra is from which all these originate and therefore doesn't count.

2)From what i've read; these are mainly spoken of only in hatha-yoga; which is extracted from tantras by gorakhnath. I have however read that svetashvatara speaks of concentrating mind on 18 points of body; which are [some] of the different chakras within us; and that there's an upanisad called 'yoga-kundalini upanisad' which speaks of these.

3)I'm reading about this; but from what i know ashtaanga yoga makes no reference to these chakras.

These 9 dwaaras are not yet palatable to however.... I think its reference to the five material senses; manas; chitta; ahamkaara and maybe one more factor that i missed out.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Prabhat · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:20 am Post subject:

Namaste,

so i really dont understeand all the chakra things.

but who is this kalki person?????
_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Shishya · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:10 am Post subject:

Namaste Prabhat,

In the Vaishnava tradition, Kalki is prophesized to be the next 'incarnation' of Vishnu, who will destroy all the evil influences in the world and re-establish universal Dharma.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:47 am Post subject:

Namaste Shis,

and ofcourse the Vaishnava tradition is ???????????????
_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject:

Vaishnava tradition means the traditions of vaishnavites, those who believe krishna/vishnu is the supreme god and that only his worship will help us attain moksha. These are generally characterised by their U or V shaped tilak on their forehead. The best example of vaishnavites, would be ISKCon or Hare Krishna movement.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Prabhat · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:38 am Post subject:

Namaste Shyena,

so how com they say that the next one comming to earth will be (born ) in a muslim family, a bit trange voor believers who are strict hindoe
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject:

'they' dont say, that's ridiculous. Maybe a few whom you met say such things. Some say that muhammad was predicted in our scriptures as this topic, that is only a minority. From what I remember, kalki will be born in the last brahmin family.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Prabhat · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject:

Namaste Shyena,

so you also believe in this Kalki person. could you tell us more abouth him.
and why is it always a man, why not a woman
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject:

Namaste Prabhatji,
No, I dont believe in kalki avatara. The reason it is a male figure is that it is supposed to be incarnation of narayana who is a male deity, and respectively is lakshmi, his consort, born onto earth, as a woman or something else for some of his incarnations. She is said to have incarnated as seeta with raama, rukmini with krishna, padmavati with venkateshvara. From what I can remember, it is said she will be born as wife of kalki.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Prabhat · Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

so its more a fairytail story by the muslims
_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat