Arya Samaj

Prabhat · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:35 am Post subject: India

Namaste all,
so India is getting famous and famous. here in the west we here Mittal and Tata getting all steel industrie in ther hands. bollywoods movies showing more girls in mini skirts and all sexy clotes, guys having long hair and tatoos.
so in short India is getting modern.

how are the youngster now thinking abouth religion, are they as modern as we here in the west?
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:58 am Post subject:

Darshani better comments about this for neither do I watch many movies, and I'm religious [athough my friends think I'm an atheist owing to my rationalistic ideas regarding issues like knowledge, tradition and sexuality]. From what I know; those of my age group[17] prefer to watch movies with story over graphic content. The tendency to watch these is greater, yes, but its not phenomenally high or something as such.

Youngsters in india - follow their traditions, but with no interest. They do it cuz their parents tell them, never interested in making quest into it. They're west-influenced agnostics, marxists or atheists. Some of their ideas would be like:
"Jesus is a really holy guy, but I dont see why people think of lecherous krsna as holy"
"I wont contribute to pollution by playing diwali"
"When you're troubled, resort to philosophy and not religion"

When it comes to vedas.. They just need a reason not to read it:
"Vedas cannot be comprehended in kali yuga"
"Many parts of the vedas have been lost and there is no use reading them"
"Vedas are too sublime but all of it is already present in upanishads"
"Vedas are just prayer hymns, polytheistic and pantheistic"
"Vedas bear information about the aryan invasion theory, hereditary caste system, etc..."
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Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Prabhat · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject:

really,

so where is the really problem.

and are there pages lost in the Vedas.
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject:

The problem lies with the defeatist and self-effable mentality of indians. Whether there be pages of vedas lost or no; that is none of our concern. The vedas existent currently itself bear too much of knowledge that cannot be ignored.
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Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Prabhat · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject:

Shyena · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject:

Defeatism: Accepting defeat without even attempting to support their stance

Self-effacy: Reluctance to draw attention to yourself
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Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Prabhat · Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject:

oke thanks.

so tell me being a virgin in marriage is not important anymore in India.
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

Shyena · Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:11 am Post subject:

Namaste,

As for being a virgin in marriage - Its something not talked about in the first place. Very few indians have lost their virginity before marriage, and those who have, others are not made aware of this in most of the cases. Remarriage is much more accepted however.

Shishya · Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

Shyena · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:26 am Post subject:

Actually what you face is what I call 'inauthentic hinduism'.

>>Personally, i am a hindu daughter who is not allowed to leave my husband...says father.<<
I can't remember about manusmrti, but according to artha shaastra a wife can leave her husband if he doesn't treat her well.

>>Well, i am always going to do as he says (yeah! right!!!) I am supposed to take beat....and anything that is bad....rotten and scummed thrown in my face (then again!Whatever father!!!!)....so in a positive way.....western culture is a good thing.<<
According to manu smrti, prosperity flows only in those homes where the woman is bejeweled and honoured..
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Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Mitra · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject:

I think what the people fear about Western culture ,whether they be Hindu or Muslim or Christian in the cities and villages of india pak, arabia, is the freedom given to women and the right of choice given to them.
It would topple the whole society as known to the average indian/asian if women could go out as they do in the west. They will not bear the notions of freesex or semi-nudity which are the boogies of the western civilization.
So what they mean when they say they will fight wesern civilzation is that they will not allow their way of sexuality and gender roles to alter. That I think is the crux . That is why though India is aping the west in its materialism , the average indian will not change much when it comes to what happens in his family- daughters, sisters and wife should be well-covered and docile ( homely- a great indian matrimonial word); girlfriends, models and the filmi heroines have be dressed to fulfill the fantasies but they will always be impure, and 'bold' or 'fast' girls, not worthy of respect or marriages into good families.
Otherwise, Indians dont have any problem with changing what they eat , drink, how they spend ,loot,steal, bribe,run the politics. We are human after all. We are open to change. Only dont expect women to be human.They are goddesses in India and cant have human failings/feelings.
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Namaste
Manurbhava

Shishya · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject:

Namaste Mitra, PD & Sunita,

I repsect what everyone has said. Yet, I still feel like the main issue is being overlooked. This is not a manifestation of Western Culture. This is a manifestation of Adharmic Culture. I am surprised that, though some of you live in the West, you have not noticed the staunchly conservative underbelly of Anglo-America. Do you think that only Indians and Muslims have strong opinions agains nudity, 'free' sexuality, premarital sex, abortion, corruption, etc., etc.? Then you need to visit a small, rural American town, where the Bible is still taken as the Word of God, where people still go to church on Sundays and where they still pray before they eat. I promise you they do not like the direction the world is headed in any more than Indians and Muslims.

In the same breath, I would like to say that freedom, equality and justice are not 'Western Values'. They are Dharmic Principles, wherever they be held.

The struggle here is not between East and West. It is between Dharma and Adharma. This point is continually (and sometimes, I feel, intentionally) overlooked by all those who rabble-rouse under the banner of 'nationalism'. This has nothing to do with nationality, race or politics. This has to do with morality, to which all humans are equally subject.
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Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject:

Shishya · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject:

Namaste PD,

Forgive my thick-headedness. Laughing

But what point, exactly, are you making? I don't think we can take the Kaama Sutra as representative of Dharma. Do you?

And besides that, are you overlooking the main thrust of my last post intentionally?
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Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject:

Namaste Shishya,
Actually I have nothing to overlook in your post owing to the fact that there is nothing in that post that I'm opposed to Wink

The point I'm trying to make is that HINDUS had nothing against 'modern' thinking; and were more in support of this ideology. As for accepting KS, I mean the fundamental ideology in it, that during the grhasta stage a man should indeed indulge in pleasures [wealth, etc... included] so that he will not persist with these desires which will have an impact on his vanaprastha stage. The ideology of people before this 'fusion' period; is pretty unclear for me - because I mostly rely upon manusmrti but it speaks of some things opposed to what actually happened in vedic history [which many accuse is due to muslims interpolating the canon]
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Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:34 am Post subject:

Namaste all.

guys it is not only the sex things, it is just getting modern in India. and how the people change. for example we have b4u and zeetv here. and i like to watch the serie's after hours is a serie abouth rich people party, and they are so open abouth sex and drinking. me and the wife look with big eyes, abouth wow, these people are modern than we are here in holland.

and one thing abouth Sunita, you can get the india out of the indian, how tru. i am not from India but i still love my curry man, yummie
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

I live in a small white community. Over the years i learned that i was from planet mars. I would like to lie to the world and tell them my life is perfect and i have a great life....so true. You have no idea what it has done to me.

At age 27, i can speak for myself and try to get healthy and move on. I was laughed by people in this community when i told them about my life and culture in Guyana.

They made fun of me because i was a virgin and had no experience. Because Subash was the first guy for me.....that they couldn't believe. They think i am out of my mind.

I still recieve harrassed phone calls from men. I am tough...luckilly i can handle it myself.

Parents buy alcohol and give their children in the home....because they will go drink anyway. They give their teenagers cigarettes.....and at 2am on a Friday night and Saturday as welll...you can find girls and boys age 13 and up...out in the park....having fun without no fear. So my brothers and sisters, people do things here that we may considered wrong but its all acceptable here.

But not every boy and girl are the same. My best friend Amanda from College is now 20. She never do any of those things. So the story can go on and on....but i miss my family and friends so much. Long Live Guyana and India! Proud of our indian heritage.

Namaste!
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Namaste!

(1) If you can imagine it, you can achieve it; if you can dream it, you can become it. William Arthur Ward

(2) The self is not something ready-made, but something in continuous formation through choice of action.John Dewey:

(3) Andre Gide: Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject:

Namaste Sun,

it is the same over here. i think the world is changing. so do we blame MTV or the parents
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Namaste,
Prabhat

Shyena · Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject:

MTV, for its senseless 'modernisation'. Actually its moral degradation leading to intellectual collapse. My parents have never stressed me about anything - education, religion or anything. I came to all of this on my own, which is why I'm ever grateful to them.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject:

Deepan Abisuriya · Junior Member Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 66

Namaste all,

Was divorse permitted in the vedic times. Was there a law of divorse in the hindu society. I don't think so. Pls, kindly clarify PD.

To make my point here. All those who study their own scriptures (any religion) will lead a life of dharma. We see christians who are pure and pious, who follow the Bible, not just in one place but all over the world. They consider Bible to be the word of God and follow it in spirit and letter. Let us not neglect them. So it is with hindus and muslims. Good and bad are found every where.

Pls don't get confused by comparing the west with christian, just because they are the majority. Bible doesnot rule all lands, but secularism and as shishya says adharmic behaviour. Adharma is not taught by any scripture. Even christians believe in virginity to be followed before marriage, no divorse, and no adultary (Bible also teaches holy dharma and so did Jesus Christ).

Indian - when you say, have you forgotten the 2000 year old religion of christianity in India. They are more Indian in culture than the 1000 year history of muslims who still adhere to the Arabian culture. Therefore, pls don't exclude the christians from the word Indian. Speaking about Jesus to be holy and Krishna a unholy, this is not a christian thought nor supported by all hindus. Even christians support the fact that Krishna was yogi, but they don't deny that Jesus Christ was holy. So is the thought of hindus.

Indians are having a good sense of behaviour than any other race, due to their culture, which ever religion they may belong to. Good culture is taught in all religions.

Deepan.

Shishya · Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject:

Namaste Deepen,

Surin Ji has written several interesting posts on 'divorce' versus 'separation', which seems to be permitted in at least the Artha Shastra. Please see here for more.
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Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads