Arya Samaj

Ayush

I've noticed that most Arya Samajis have a attitude very similar to an Agnostic or even an Atheist at times. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
Comparatively, the smarthas seem much more devoted to God.
(I'm not even going to consider other sects that accept the Puranas as authority.)

Is there any specific reason for this?
At first, I used to think that its because Arya Samajis believe in a formless God. But then again, Muslims and Sikhs do too. But they seem very devoted to God.

Shyena · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject:

Namaste ayush,
Actually I've noted that a bit myself... I think the reason lies in the relation of god and soul, other than nirakara(formless) worship. Muslims have the 'god created us' and fear factor, sikhs have the 'god is eternal' and advaitic factor [advaita can yield strange form of devotion although it denigrates position of ishvara...]. Personally, I have no need to focus upon god through a vigraha, but I prefer to remember god looking at such idols. Pauraaniks are generally the ones with highest level of devotion, beyond muslims.
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Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Ayush · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject:

So Arya Samajis don't worship or pray to God much?

Shyena · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject:

I don't really know, I'm not an arya samajist Very Happy

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Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Ayush · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject:

Oh okay. You're a smartha, right?

Shyena · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject:

Yea, but my family doesn't perform the panchayatana pooja until Shishya mentioned about it(!). Though belonging to the sampradaya, we follow more of the generic hindu festivals and the like.
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Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Ayush · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject:

PD, do you believe Adi shankara was an incarnation of God, a prophet sent by God or just a man?
And what do most smarthas believe?

I'm just curious.

Shishya · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject:

Namaste Ayush and PD,

What is devotion? Is it bowing down before a murthi, walking around a shrine, piercing one's flesh with needles and hooks or chanting a name x-hundred times a day? The Arya Samaj does not enjoin such practices on its members. Does this mean that they lack devotion?

For an Arya Samajist, devotion is performing one's duty daily as per the Will of God. They maintain the Pancha Maha Yajnas (including Hawan and Agnihotra) and celebrate the 16 Sanskaars. Beyond this, each Arya strives to personally commune with God through Sandhyopasana twice daily. To an unexperienced observer, Sandhyopasana may appear to be a rather dull practice. But for the dedicated Arya who attains that communion, it is anything but dull.

Are these not expressions of devotion? No, it's not as spectacular as walking over a bed of hot coals or lying on broken glass. But, believe me, it takes dedication to wake up before the rising of the sun for Sandhya every morning. Yet it is devotion to God and the pleasure of experiencing His presence which urges us on.

Aryas do not believe that we can gain God's forgiveness for our transgressions simply by praying for it. There is no 'fast track' to salvation, as some would like to believe. "Simply chant this name 108 times a day and you will be saved!" "Just bathe in this holy river and your sins will be forgiven!" "Just accept this man as your saviour and you will enter heaven upon death!": Such things are nonsense in the eyes of an Arya. Prayer can bring us close to God, but we must do good to make up for the bad we have done.

I could go on, but I would like to give others the chance to say a few words on this issue. Wink

_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Ayush · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject:

Shishya · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject:

Namaste Ayush,

I am reminded of Swamiji's last words before leaving this world:

“O Omniponent, Merciful God! If this is Thy Will, may Thy Will prevail.”
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject:

Devotion of god - where you fall into trances or can never leave the pen from writing poems in praise of god...

And as for those who preach those practices dogmatically, you'll also come to know they have very weak devotion to god. They do those not out of love but out of material desires or fear.
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Mitra · Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:12 pm Post subject:

AryaSamaj may not be as demonstrative as others in exhibiting signs of devotion.Indeed, that is one of the reasons why people are less attracted to the Samaj. There is not much of a ritual to participate in unlike the singing and chanting,dancing and decorating as with others. The Yajnas appear very monotonous to many. Also, we dont go on saying "Bismillah" before everything or "Amen" after, or "Jai Raam Ji ki".

Devotion for us is feeling the constant presence of God everywhere and within us.Devotion is not confined to rituals.It is practiced in all our mundane activities,with a constant remembrance of God.The second principle of the Aryasamaj illustrates what a living presence God is. God is Supreme. He is here for you everytime. You can aspire to reach Him.

Swami Dayanand's pravachans did not sway the people because of his criticism of the the faults in others. Those who heard him speak say that when he spoke,it was his intense bhakti and the fervor with which he spoke about God that made them his followers.

The vedic concepts of Stuti , Prarthana and Upasana are the way to experience the communion with God . The mantras in Vedas praise the God and they are exquisite. They help us to think and feel about God and his attributes. Mahatma Anand Swami says that your bhakti is true if you get a tear in your eyes contemplating Him . That should be the intensity of feeling associated with worship.Mere chanting of Gods names or mantras without realizing their meaning is worthless.

How many of the devotees know the purpose and meaning of what they do in the name of worship? Devotion should come from the heart but it should not be mindless.

It takesa lot of effort and discipline to be devoted to God in the Vedic way . We are not promised pardon for all our sins and there are no rituals to get rid of our sins. There is only a constant effort to understand and seek God's grace while leading a righteous life.

There have been poets in Arya Samaj and their bhajans illustrate the bhakti which inspires many. They are not as popular as the Bhajans and devotionals commonly heard but they can give a much more correct representation of bhakti in Arya Samaj.

Also,the devotion to a revenge seeking, fearsome God or one who asks for money from his devotees is such a selfish,negative and self deluding, devotion. Devotion is there in them, but to what end?
_________________
Namaste
Manurbhava

Devo · Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

Just adding to Bahin Mitra's post, which give a clear view of devotion, from an Aryan perspective.

Whilse reading Bahin ji's post, a recurring thought kept budging at me. It asks:

Who are we to limit and define what devotion is? Should it not be upto the individual to express being devoted through his/her own devotion?

Also, having given freedom to the individual expression, can we just preform x, y, and z?

From an Vaidik perspective, our main aim is God realization, which can only come about through self-realization.

From an Arya Samaj point of view, our devotion in cultivated along the lines of self-realization, which is the hardest and most complicated aspect of evry human.

In every religion, devotees follow a common man made set of rules that focuses on their own concept of God.

What about the self development through this devotion?

If we cannot maintain the self in one accord, will our devotion be fruitful, or would it be just a temporary factor in our lives?

If we can possibly find an answer to that, then maybe the purpose and definintion of devotion within the Arya Samaj may be understood.

Shyena · Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject:

as expected, replies come only upon being stressed.

jignyaasu · Newbie Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 3 Location: india

The purpose of Bhakti is to remember the Almighty and his attributes , express our gratitude, receive the inspiration, and getting rid of our ego or Ahamkaar by bowing down to a higher power.

Also , The Arya Samaj emphasizes that God is Benevolent and Just. The parent who indulges a child's every wish cannot be kind. Rather such a parent destroys the child.The parent's responsibilty is the welfare of the child and it will involve disciplining the child. Similarly the Omnipotent God takes care of his creation in a just way in accordance with the laws he ordained. The justice is a part of God's mercy as it is required for the soul's upliftment.

Prabhat · Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject:

Shyena · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject:

Namaste Prabhat

Mitra · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject:

Namaste Prabhat Ji and PD Ji,

Brought up as a Arya Samaj kid, I can never bow to a idol as I would consider it an sacrilege to think that God can be limited by us in an idol made by us. I am almost a muslim fanatic when it comes to that ,except that I wouldnt even think of breaking the beautiful idols revered by so many.
I understand when you say that ultimately all people end up closing their eyes when they say they are getting the 'Darshan' of God after standing for hours in a queue to "see" God!!
The point is idols dont help us to focus on God as the senses are not turned inwards as they should be. When looking at an idol and listening to the chants describing the colour of the idol,the lotus feet of the idol etc, the senses are directed outwards towards an object and that is a method to lose ourself in a maze of sensory input. If the senses are engaged in the external world how can they concentrate on the Self and That which is inside us?
Our mind is extremely fickle. It can have as its object of attention only one thing at a time. It does not multitask. So idols are not conducive for concentrating upon God
Again as Shishya Ji said, all the creation reminds us of God everywhere all the time.
_________________
Namaste
Manurbhava

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:29 pm Post subject:

Shyena

Namaste Prabhat,
I thought you meant the statement in a generalised fashion, so read it as 'than looking at idols'
I pray with my eyes open.... but I gaze at the vigraha - it acts only as a static object that wont dynamically change, distracting me.

Namaste Mitra,

Shishya · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:46 pm Post subject:

Namaste All,

Out of respect to Ayush, I would like to remind everyone that the topic at hand is the role of devotion in Arya Samaj - and not whether idolworship is useful or not. (We have several threads on that topic already. In particular, I would like to make note of the following: Is Idol Worship Compatible With The Vedic Religion?)

P.D. - you needn't try and convince any Arya Samajis that people are justified in performing murthi puja. If that's what they want to do, fine. A healthy person can choose to use a wheelchair to get around if he wants to. He just shouldn't expect people to open doors for him. Wink

The arguments for and against the issue have been have been made, and any rational person can decide for themselves whether worshipping at the base of an idol is proper conduct for a noble person. If there are still honest (vaada) uncertainties regarding the matter, let them be directed to the appropriate threads.

However - getting back to the original topic - the fact that the Arya Samaj does not promote idol worship does not mean that Aryas lack devotion. On the contrary, one could just as easily say that Aryas refuse to worship idols out of devotion to God. God is formless and unlimited. Aryas therefore categorically refuse all attempts at representing God in material form out of devotion to this very truth.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Shyena · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject:

Shyena · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject:

A sidenote, I dont understand how muslims claim they're the most iconoclastic ones out there when they associate umpteen angels, prophets, emotions and an idolatrous book to That, the Qu'Ran. Guess they've all committed the sin of shirk...
_________________

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

Shishya · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject:

Namaste PD,

The main point I am trying to make is that Aryas are living proof that idol worship is not required to express devotion to God - in fact, that it is contrary to the true understanding of Divinity. If you agree, then I am pleased. Very Happy

I would like to add that the primary function of Homa or Agnihotra is not to attain communion with God. This is a secondary benefit, but not the primary goal. The goal of Agnihotra is to do good to all through the purification of the atmoshpere on multiple levels.

Instead, it is Sandhyopasana which is primarily intended for the attainment of devotional communion. It is, if you like, a simple yet powerful form of yoga (including all the practical stages such as asana, pranayama, etc.) which aims at enabling the individual to realize the all-pervading presence of God.

I don't see how anyone would be unable to practice Sandhyopasana. Even children have no problems with it. Therefore I don't believe that there are some people who 'need' idols because they are as yet incapable of performing Sandhya with positive results. All people are capable of nobility. However, they have to practice it. Until then, it remains conjecture.
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads