Arya Samaj

savitri · Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: Love transcends all barriers

Criterion for marriage should be undiluted pure & matured love and not age difference, caste, colour, nationality, religion, financial standing, social status et cetera. As a hypothetical case, suppose I marry an old man and he dies after some time then he is sure to watch over me on earth from his new abode in astral sphere. Thanks. Namastey.
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Love is god & god is love.

Ayush · Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Love transcends all barriers

savitri · Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Love transcends all barriers

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

Ayushji,

I am not willing to move ahead with this discussions until u edit your origional post. Your comments did not respect women in any way and u fail to see it.

Ayush · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:15 am Post subject:

^
I'm not editing anything. The mods/admins can edit whatever they think is inappropriate.

Shishya · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject:

Namaste,

As far as I can tell, all Ayush was saying is that women shouldn't complain about being stared at if they walk around dressed indecently. I don't see where the sexism towards women is in that comment. But I invite the ladies to point it out to me... Smile

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Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Mitra · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject:

Namaste Shishya Ji,
This would be repeating myself, but my point is that the sexist part comes in because we know women are stared at even when dressed most modestly. Its mostly just an excuse from guys we hear all the time that when a girl is all dressed up its to attract attention. Such thinking is even at the root of the sexist inhumane treatment received by the widows in our culture traditionally where a woman is not allowed to dress up / adorn herself for her own expression of personality and aesthetics because her master has died so there is no purpose for beauty in her life anymore.Women dont exist for men to look at them, Women dress up for themselves too... (Its only the males in all of the natural world except us modern humans who preen themselves and make a show of their mating colors and prowess ,come to think of it...)
Well my point is unless a healthy respect for women and allowing them their space is cultivated in society its highly difficult for women to come out and just go about their life. And the way Ayush ranted, it certainly didn't reflect a respectful attitude to women. Even burqas will not stop an indecent thought or stare. So do we women best stay at home behind purdahs lest our presence disturb the thoughts of aspiring celibates like Ayush?

Edit: I dont think Ayush needs to edit his words though. Lets bring all the attitude out into the open, atleast he expresses his views honestly.

Shishya · Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject:

Namaste Mitra Ji,

Mitra · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:55 am Post subject:

As I said in my previous posts I am not supporting indecency. I am arguing against the rant of Ayush where he doesn't own up to the responsibilty of his own thoughts .

And what about the way women were illtreated as widows in our culture. They were made to shave their heads so that their subhuman appearance would help uphold the morality of the society . What lead to such oppression of basic dignity? What about the ideas that women are gateways to hell because they lead a man towards the mire of samsaara . Ayush's initial rant was very similar to this idea saying he hated that women disturb his free existence sans the commitment...if you look at his initial posts .

[quote]just go about their life[/qoute] I meant the average women going abt their lives in the workplaces,schools and on the roads and the fields whose life is a everyday struggle .
"Who we are, where we go, what we wear, how we sit, stand, talk, walk in our very own cities. When we demand the need to make our cities non threatening I don’t expect anyone to think of me as their sister or mother, but to really look at women as citizens who have every right to be out on the streets, without any explanation. Sometimes we just love to walk, stand around, hang around, without looking ‘avaliable.’" http://www.blanknoiseproject.blogspot.com/
Girls and women have been killed on the streets of India .
"Far too often, we find the victim on the wrong side of the stick. If we were to go into the aetiology of eve-teasing, as propounded by so-called analysts of the phenomenon, it would seem ludicrous, if not nauseating — "With the way she dressed she had it coming," "She would have encouraged the boys" and "Boys will be boys, girls have to be discreet". The "behavioural scientists" are in a sense in cahoots with eve-teasers as they seem to be condoning their crimes. How would they explain the fact that hell-raisers on the road knock the living daylights out of a motorist for no other reason than the fact that she is a woman. And we know only too well that many of these victims are clad in saris or churidhars, and not in skin-hugging, skimpy outfits."

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2002/09/10/stories/2002091000070100.htm
Thats the reason why I am obsessively posting to this thread. Only if one knows how bad the situation in India is today for the average women - one can understand that basic rights of women to breathe and live are at risk because of attitudes of people who are rankled by even the mere physical presence of women amidst them.
We speak of women as Maatrushakti around here. We can choose to learn to see that power in the women or just go along being led by senses as Ayush says its what the eyes see that matters more than what his brain thinks.
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Namaste
Manurbhava

Mitra · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:12 am Post subject:

Women in India are organizing campaigns where they stare back at men - retaliation to a desperate situation.

Shishya · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:52 am Post subject:

Namaste Mitra Ji,

Well, judging by your last comments, this has little to nothing to do with clothing, then. It has to do with the attitude and behavior towards women in general.

Like I said, if a woman is dressed normally, and a man stares at or taunts her, then in my opinion he has some kind of problem that needs to be addressed.

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

A woman should wear anything that makes her feel comfortable and beautiful. We do have a reputition to keep up. As long as we dress appropriately for every occassion...i don't see a problem.

She can be naked, but that still didn't give men the right to look at her.They are many nudest in North America.....We just respect them for who they are.

Those saadhus in India wear no clothing. We see them as Saadhus and nothing else.

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

Prabhat · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:30 am Post subject:

Namaste,

i like this topic.

but i think is not the clothes, but the girl/women in the clothes that men look at. for example. i would look at a girl who is to big/or to skinny in a bikini/skirt or whatever.

So i think is the face of a beautifull women(ofcourse tast of the men) who makes men Aashiqs, and yes if they have nice clothes, well thats more beautifull.

thats why, old (hindoe)Suriname women where ornies, to hide there faces from other men. i think they where ahead in this things. But oke we live in a modern time we go with the times of clothes.

living here in holland i see also girls/womens who look at men. as of they have a kind of status, so he is loaded with money. So here in holland is not that strange people looking at each other.

thats my opinion.

ahhh girls before you attack me. i have a mother, 4 sisters, wife and 2 daughters and so i am surrounded by female. Wink

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Namaste,
Prabhat

Shishya · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:37 am Post subject:

Namaste Sunita Ji,

Ayush · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:53 am Post subject:

Ayush · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:05 am Post subject:

Shyena · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject:

Namaste,
Just one thing, its not always guys who are against rights of gals. There are many a times I see when I fight for the rights of women, such as reading vedas, their liberty of dress/work, etc.... And women are the foremost members who argue against me - to the extent they say I'm a feminist....
It is also to be understood very well, the people who first wail when a baby girl is born, is not men but women.
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Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam meditate

Namaste

savitri · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:15 am Post subject: One is responsible for oneself

It is the lurking conscious, sub-conscious or unconscious desire in some corner or recess of mind or heart that makes a female victim of male chauvinism. In other words, a female is to blame herself if there is any atrocity on her.
Pardon me for burdening the forum with my person. Once a rich boy offered me ten thousand rupees for touching my body for two seconds but I refused. Thanks. Namastey.
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Love is god & god is love.

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567

Shishya · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:01 am Post subject:

Namaste Sunita,

Ayush said 85% of feminists, not women. Unless, of course, all women are feminists in your eyes...
_________________
Namaste,

Shishya
ॐ

ॐ सह नावतु । सह तौ भुनक्तु । सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ॥
"Together may we be protected. Together may we be profited. Together may we do a hero's work. May we learn intelligently. May we never hate one another."
-Brihadaranyaka & Taittiriya Upanishads

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 567