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Sunita
Arya Ladies Forum Moderator
Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 542
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 Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Shishya wrote: | Namaste Sunita,
Ayush said 85% of feminists, not women. Unless, of course, all women are feminists in your eyes... |
well, its 5:15am and i haven't slept all night....sorry i just didn't read well. |
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Ayush
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 128
Location: Pune, India
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Sunita wrote: | | Ayush wrote: | | Sunita wrote: | | Ayush wrote: | I get to rant too.
[rant]
In my opinion, Oprah Winfrey is another crazy feminist who likes to talk nonsense.
"The entire world is against females"
HALF THE WORLD IS FEMALES!
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Well tell me what this suppose to mean other than what was stated.  |
Nope. I meant exactly what I said. 85% of the feminists are crazy people who need to get a hobby.
The females are themselves responsible for their state. I know so many girls who would just like to be a "housewife".
And don't forget that most of the times women suffer because of their mother in laws. |
How old are you? |
I'm 21. |
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Ayush
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 128
Location: Pune, India
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Sunita wrote: | | Ayush wrote: | | Sunita wrote: | She can be naked, but that still didn't give men the right to look at her.They are many nudest in North America.....We just respect them for who they are.
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I don't know what you mean by "we" but I too have a lot of friends and relatives in North America and Europe. The nudists get stared at a lot. And they don't even care. They know its a choice they've made for themselves and that they haven't been forced to roam around naked. Just the way females in most free countries are not forced to roam around in clothes that make the shape of their breasts and buttocks so very apparent.
EDIT : Actually, not all females are Oprah Winfrey groupies. I know females who have admitted that they dress the way they do because they want boys to look at them. Not just one or two females but just about every female I know.
Also, "looking" and "leching" are very different things. What I've been talking about in all my posts is "looking". |
Thanks for clearing the Oprah Winfrey groupies. Well, some females loves the attention from males. God created women with certain taste in fashion. So we like to dress up but there is a limit. Next time u look at a tight fitted woman just picture her as a machoman and not a babe. 
Forget about the cup size and the other shapes.....just think of oranges, apples and other healthy fruits. |
I didn't get you. |
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Mitra
Bharat News Forum Moderator
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 298
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The females are themselves responsible for their state. I know so many girls who would just like to be a "housewife". |
Namaste Ayush And Shyena,
Women are part of society in which they are brought up and they inculcate the values by which the society runs. So if the societal values give importance to a woman looking beautiful, talking little, and being subservient thats the values women also are going to have because thats how they will survive and be successful - if they play by the rules of the game - So even the girl wearing the trendiest clothes chooses to play safe and just go by the norm - ( all the Karan Johar heroines who wear teeny weeny skirts and start announcing their roots by singing the Arathi.) They have to prove they are housewife material . And a woman who is unmarried is deemed a failure.
Women are conditioned to expect that a man is going to take care of them all their lives - and their lives run around making sure that they ensure they are the most important person in the life of a male - father ,husband or a son.
Why are women against women - usual Saas Bahu stuff ? Because the lives of women revolve around men . The Saas and Bahu and sisters all have to gain the attention of that single man who gives a purpose to their life. And these power struggles are what give rise to all our sitcoms full of women without a bit of self-esteem.
So for you Ayush being just a housewife is a sad state - for which women are responsible themselves. But for women its the purpose of their existence - their greatest achievement - if they find a guy who can care/pay for them and their kids for which they repay mind you by being a wife,a friend, and mom ,and also a cook and cleaner ,accountants and event managers. I guess this is how it appears if you take love and Samskaara out of the equation . A woman who does not aspire to be a housewife has something seriously wrong with her. So how can you blame a woman for being exactly what the society demands her to be - a housewife.
And please refer to my http://www.blanknoiseproject.blogspot.com/ link where we object to 'looking' also. You see women are just coming out in our society and looking itself feels a violation. The first women who ventured out of purdah and into education or public life were looked at. The usual soundtrack in our society goes - "Log Dekhenge" "Kahenge". It does not go "Log Ghurenge". You wouldnt get it but looking is a very disconcerting body language tool.
Why - Are women weird in some way that you have to glance at them? And that campaign was for reclaiming the right to exist unquestioned move and breathe freely in the same space as you . It was not for the right to wear revealing clothes.
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Namaste
Manurbhava |
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Ayush
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 128
Location: Pune, India
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Mitra wrote: | | Quote: | | The females are themselves responsible for their state. I know so many girls who would just like to be a "housewife". |
So how can you blame a woman for being exactly what the society demands her to be - a housewife.
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Society = Men + Women, not just Men.
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And please refer to my http://www.blanknoiseproject.blogspot.com/ link where we object to 'looking' also. You see women are just coming out in our society and looking itself feels a violation. The first women who ventured out of purdah and into education or public life were looked at. The usual soundtrack in our society goes - "Log Dekhenge" "Kahenge". It does not go "Log Ghurenge". You wouldnt get it but looking is a very disconcerting body language tool.
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Maybe the people who are members of that campaign think that 'looking' should be a criminal offense. They have a right to their opinion.
But I have a right to my opinion as well. And in my opinion, people who view 'looking' as a criminal act are idiots who need to go back to school and learn what democracy and freedom means. (From a legal point of view)
From a moral/ethical point of view :
A Buddhist dude once told me : If it is being shown freely, look all you want..
But if its not being shown freely, do not even try.
It is completely up to the females. They decide how much they want to show and how much they don't. Whatever they show will be seen. And whatever they don't CANNOT be seen. At least, not by people like me who don't possess any supernatural powers.
End of story.
It is just such a simple concept. I don't know why it is so hard to understand.
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And that campaign was for reclaiming the right to exist unquestioned move and breathe freely in the same space as you . It was not for the right to wear revealing clothes. |
If being looked at by other people make some people feel like they are being denied the right to move and breathe freely, perhaps these people need to see a psychiatrist.
Do not get me wrong. I understand what you are talking about. I understand what that campaign is all about. I'm against harassment of females too. But I'm sorry, 'looking' is not harassment in my opinion.
Making filthy gestures, passing comments, stalking, etc etc.. can be considered as harassment. But simply looking cannot. |
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Mitra
Bharat News Forum Moderator
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 298
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Ayush ,
Yes we are all part of society ,and got to exist together. Part of that is being able to be able to stand in someone else's shoes . If so many of us women are feeling that "looking" is offensive and are out on the streets volunteering to ridiculously stare back - then spare a minute to think why? Because we face it everyday - the inability to move , to hang out, to stand .
You and I are talking about not exactly the same thing. You are talking about your right to look at women who are not covering themselves up and I am talking about women facing " looks " just because they are women ,not because of something they do. Just ask any fully covered girl you know how comfy they are on their own when they walk alone on a unfamiliar road, how many times people look and how many times people stare and how selfconscious and uncomfortable that makes her feel.
Its the people who cant pass by a woman on the road without looking / checking out who need a course in adjusting to the presence of women in public places and learn to regard them asexually ( if thats possible .)
I am not talking about a show going on. So I guess I am done with this thread. |
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Ayush
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 128
Location: Pune, India
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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^
What you are talking about is something completely different and has little to do with what this thread originally was about.
The problem that you are talking about is a problem with many Middle Eastern and South Asian countries. India for example, is a messed up country . Not only is the law and order pathetic in this country, but women in non-metro cities practically have no rights. Their opinions don't matter. Their own families don't care about their opinions. Thats just how the society is. And by society, I don't mean men. I mean men and women. Women are mistreated by their own mother in laws, sister in laws and sometimes by their own mothers.
Women in North America and Europe don't face similar problems, do they? And if it all they do, they have an excellent law and order system to take care of it.
But that doesn't mean they put people in jail for looking at a girl.
There are messed up societies in the world. And India is one of them.
And like I said, this is a completely different topic altogether and has nothing to do with what the thread was originally about.
Last edited by Ayush on Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ayush
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 128
Location: Pune, India
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Mitra wrote: | Its the people who cant pass by a woman on the road without looking / checking out who need a course in adjusting to the presence of women in public places and learn to regard them asexually ( if thats possible .)
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A women wearing "sexy" clothes is basically asking to be checked out. |
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Sunita
Arya Ladies Forum Moderator
Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 542
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Ayush wrote: | | Mitra wrote: | Its the people who cant pass by a woman on the road without looking / checking out who need a course in adjusting to the presence of women in public places and learn to regard them asexually ( if thats possible .)
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A women wearing "sexy" clothes is basically asking to be checked out. |
No they not. Its only in guys head.
Women want to look and feel sexy. Its part of our nature. |
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Sunita
Arya Ladies Forum Moderator
Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 542
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| Ayush wrote: | ^
What you are talking about is something completely different and has little to do with what this thread originally was about.
The problem that you are talking about is a problem with many Middle Eastern and South Asian countries. India for example, is a messed up country . Not only is the law and order pathetic in this country, but women in non-metro cities practically have no rights. Their opinions don't matter. Their own families don't care about their opinions. Thats just how the society is. And by society, I don't mean men. I mean men and women. Women are mistreated by their own mother in laws, sister in laws and sometimes by their own mothers.
Women in North America and Europe don't face similar problems, do they? And if it all they do, they have an excellent law and order system to take care of it.
But that doesn't mean they put people in jail for looking at a girl.
There are messed up societies in the world. And India is one of them.
And like I said, this is a completely different topic altogether and has nothing to do with what the thread was originally about. |
Nope Ayushji,
Give it up. Let her have her say. |
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Ayush
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 128
Location: Pune, India
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Sunita wrote: | | Ayush wrote: | | Mitra wrote: | Its the people who cant pass by a woman on the road without looking / checking out who need a course in adjusting to the presence of women in public places and learn to regard them asexually ( if thats possible .)
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A women wearing "sexy" clothes is basically asking to be checked out. |
No they not. Its only in guys head.
Women want to look and feel sexy. Its part of our nature. |
Its part of your nature because you women need to attract mates. Speaking in evolutionary terms, women want to be checked out. You don't want to admit it. But I know females who are honest enough to admit it. |
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Ayush
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 128
Location: Pune, India
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Sunita wrote: |
Give it up. |
I could say the same to you.
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Let her have her say. |
How am I not letting her "have her say"? |
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Sunita
Arya Ladies Forum Moderator
Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 542
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Ayush wrote: | | Sunita wrote: | | Ayush wrote: | | Mitra wrote: | Its the people who cant pass by a woman on the road without looking / checking out who need a course in adjusting to the presence of women in public places and learn to regard them asexually ( if thats possible .)
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A women wearing "sexy" clothes is basically asking to be checked out. |
No they not. Its only in guys head.
Women want to look and feel sexy. Its part of our nature. |
Its part of your nature because you women need to attract mates. Speaking in evolutionary terms, women want to be checked out. You don't want to admit it. But I know females who are honest enough to admit it. |
Women are not a showcase or shopping mall for men.
Last edited by Sunita on Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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savitri
Junior Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 82
Location: Mumbai N Melbourne
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: Two great souls |
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Sunitaji & Ayushji both seem to be greater than each other. Thanks. Namstey.
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Love is god & god is love. |
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Prabhat
Platinum Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1153
Location: Holland, The Hague
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Sunita wrote: | | Women are not a showcase or shopping mall for men. Please! u making me sick....i can't admit to something that have no interest in. I cannot let you know how i feel about men. I am only going to say all the things u won't want to hear. Men is not the most important thing in this world. Life is better without them. |
Huh?
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Namaste,
Prabhat |
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Sunita
Arya Ladies Forum Moderator
Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 542
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Prabhatji,
Sorry! was hot headed. Sadam, Binladen, Hitler, and some others didn't make it any better. I believe that women could be better rulers than many presidents. We are more compasionate than men. 
Last edited by Sunita on Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Prabhat
Platinum Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1153
Location: Holland, The Hague
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Sunita wrote: |
Prabhatji,
I am torned into a million pieces and blaming all the men for one man's mistakes. I don't hate men, i just don't like the ones i dealt with.
Sorry! was hot headed. Sadam, Binladen, Hitler, and some others didn't make it any better. I believe that women could be better rulers than many presidents. We are more compasionate than men. |
haha you give a an idea for a new topic.
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Namaste,
Prabhat |
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Sunita
Arya Ladies Forum Moderator
Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 542
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Prabhatji,
I still want to know why people get married if they don't love each other. How can u make love to a person u don't love? Do everybody thinks marriage is a contract between a man and a woman only??? if so, Why???
I was watching the movie Vivah......I only saw it twice but i love that movie dearly. It was arranged marriage but they still had time to get to know each other before the wedding. It was so culturely organised.......i realised how much we are missing living in this part of the world. The more modernised we get.......the higher the divorce rate. |
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savitri
Junior Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 82
Location: Mumbai N Melbourne
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: A Life Of Spiritual Aloneness |
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I am planning to remain a spinster and then become a nun. If some stray sex enters into my life, God will forgive me. Thanks. Namastey.
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Love is god & god is love. |
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Prabhat
Platinum Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1153
Location: Holland, The Hague
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Sunita wrote: | Prabhatji,
I still want to know why people get married if they don't love each other. How can u make love to a person u don't love? Do everybody thinks marriage is a contract between a man and a woman only??? if so, Why???
I was watching the movie Vivah......I only saw it twice but i love that movie dearly. It was arranged marriage but they still had time to get to know each other before the wedding. It was so culturely organised.......i realised how much we are missing living in this part of the world. The more modernised we get.......the higher the divorce rate. |
wow,
ehhhhhhh, wel i dont know. i agree with you that in this time we live in, is not the best thing to do. people are to busy with there own thing. time for someone else we dont have. we also live in a world NOW that sex is every where, on tv, posters, music, movies etc, etc. is like a mass hypnosis. everyone likes to be the person in the commercial.
and finaly they find out, that they lose the person the love. and hurt other love ones.
i hope in my best english i have tried to tell what i think.
btw, fyi, me and my wife are married 18 years(Vaidikh Dharm), and last saterday we where married 12,5 years the dutch law way. so there is love. only people expect to much of the other partner.
and the movie Vivaah i didnt like, is to soft, this things dont happen in real life. dont get to attacht by it. 
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Namaste,
Prabhat |
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Ayush
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 128
Location: Pune, India
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Sunita wrote: | | Ayush wrote: | | Sunita wrote: | | Ayush wrote: | | Mitra wrote: | Its the people who cant pass by a woman on the road without looking / checking out who need a course in adjusting to the presence of women in public places and learn to regard them asexually ( if thats possible .)
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A women wearing "sexy" clothes is basically asking to be checked out. |
No they not. Its only in guys head.
Women want to look and feel sexy. Its part of our nature. |
Its part of your nature because you women need to attract mates. Speaking in evolutionary terms, women want to be checked out. You don't want to admit it. But I know females who are honest enough to admit it. |
Women are not a showcase or shopping mall for men. |
Thank you for that lesson. |
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Arya Putra
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 135
Vaada Skills: +2
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Savitri wrote:
| Quote: | | I am planning to remain a spinster and then become a nun. If some stray sex enters into my life, God will forgive me. Thanks. Namastey. |
God may forgive you or not, Savitri, but will you be able to forgive yourself? God is All-Merciful and Just, but Nature is very unforgiving. If you contract AIDS you will have to pay the full price, which could be your life.
We are children of God, which means we are gods in human form. We should think and behave as gods (Aryas) and not as dogs. Only dogs and other creatures have stray sex. Noble human beings who are married to each other may express their love through sexual intercourse (though quite often, pure and simple affection is more satisfying).
Arya Putra |
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Arya Putra
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 135
Vaada Skills: +2
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Sunita wrote: Prabhatji,
I still want to know why people get married if they don't love each other. How can u make love to a person u don't love? Do everybody thinks marriage is a contract between a man and a woman only??? if so, Why??? |
Namaste,
Sunita, does love begin with a feeling? Certainly with this aspect of love (the love between a man and a woman) there will be the element of mutual attraction, and some people might even say that this is where the love begins, but I would whole-heartedly disagree.
Love begins with one’s love of God. Another way to put it is like this: Love begins with the attraction of your soul (the innermost part of your being) to that which pervades every particle of your being, and every being and everything in the Universe.
Every soul wants to know and feel the fullness of Divine Love. The Love of God, the Supreme Love, is complete and perfect. That Love is the experience of your eternal connection to your own Eternal Essence, which is none other than the Supreme Soul (Paramatman, Parabrahman, the Absolute). That ever-real, ultimate Love, is the Life of your Life, the Essence of your being, the Soul of your soul. All ‘other’ love is only an expression of THAT, which sometimes expresses as the ‘seeking of the Truth,’ the ‘seeking of Liberation,’ and the ‘seeking of Real Love.’
So, this is where true love begins. It begins with the mutual attraction to something beyond ourselves, something greater than ourselves, and that love grows with COMMIMTENT. This commitment is the backbone of love, and without it, our love is spineless. Like a body without a spine, love without commitment can never stand straight or ‘stay the course.’ Love without commitment lacks the necessary moral fiber and courage to ward off the negative tendencies of the mind.
Many people are confused and think love “can be made.” Nobody can ‘make love’ because true love is beginingless, it is eternal. Any love that originates as a whim of the mind (prompted by mental or physical feelings) is simply a fabrication. Sexual union between a man and a woman in matrimony is an expression of the love, commitment, and physical attraction that exists between them. This intimate expression of the sacred bond of a married man and woman is as natural as breathing.
| Quote: | | Do everybody thinks marriage is a contract between a man and a woman only??? if so, Why??? |
Is the emphasis in this question on the word ‘contract’ or on the phrase “between a man and a woman only?” For the purpose of shedding light on a familiar topic of our times (gay/lesbian relationships) I will consider the emphasis on the phrase “between a man and a woman only?” In this case, the answer is DEFINITELY yes: Marriage is a contract between a man and a woman only.
Nowadays many ignorant young people are adopting the misconception that unnatural relationships can also be healthy relationships. Any deviant behavior (even unnatural heterosexual behavior) can NEVER be conducive to good health and peace of mind.
There will always be people with homosexual tendencies, but our society is wrong to openly promote these tendencies, and should certainly never sanction same sex marriages. It doesn’t mean we should hate those who have such tendencies, but it is quite natural to hate the tendencies themselves. That which is disgusting is disgusting, and it is a healthy and natural reaction of the mind and body to be repulsed by such tendencies. Even those who have such tendencies are naturally repulsed by them, which is why they hate themselves. The way to help them is not to encourage the tendencies, but to cultivate healthy tendencies by showing them (with our own example) how to love themselves as pure souls. When we perceive and respect ourselves and one another as souls (pure, imageless consciousness, devoid of mental superimpositions), we can deal with our own and others tendencies without succumbing to the love/hate syndrome.
In human beings, tendencies (vasanas) lead to behavior (actions, karmas) only when the attitude and thoughts (vrittis) allow it. In other words, a person with homosexual tendencies is NOT a homosexual unless he or she engages in homosexual behavior. By openly promoting such behavior (through the mass media, and even in the educational curriculum here in the West), we are doing a disservice to those individuals and humanity as a whole.
Arya Putra |
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savitri
Junior Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 82
Location: Mumbai N Melbourne
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: I was misunderstood |
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| Arya Putra wrote: |
We are children of God, which means we are gods in human form. We should think and behave as gods (Aryas) and not as dogs. Only dogs and other creatures have stray sex. Noble human beings who are married to each other may express their love through sexual intercourse (though quite often, pure and simple affection is more satisfying).
Arya Putra |
I had meant unplanned, unintentional, involuntary and accidental sex which may befall the fate of a spinster or a nun. Thanks. Namastey.
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Love is god & god is love. |
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Arya Putra
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 135
Vaada Skills: +2
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I had meant unplanned, unintentional, involuntary and accidental sex which may befall the fate of a spinster or a nun. |
You need to be clear about the distinction between a 'spinster' and a 'nun.' A nun is the equivalent of a 'monk,' and both of them are bramhacharis who deliberately practice continence for the purpose of raising consciousness. A spinster simply means (according to Dictionary.com) "a woman still unmarried beyond the usual age of marrying."
'Unplanned', 'unintentional', and 'accidental' sex may certainly 'befall' a spinster but never a nun. Also, this manner of sex outside the bounds of marriage never 'befalls' anyone, but is engaged in willingly. Of the types of sex you mentioned, only involuntary sex (i.e., rape) could befall either a spinster, nun, or anyone else for that matter.
Arya Putra |
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