Arya Samaj

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 544

Aryaji,

Please explain the different types of love and what does the scriptures says about it?

I am so curious why so many love marriages (in North America) don't last over 5 years.

Arya Putra · Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject:

savitri · Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:55 am Post subject: Sex is poor shadow of love

Highest is unselfish love. Next comes affection. Then sex for begetting progeny. Lastly, you have sex for pleasure.
_________________
Love is god & god is love.

Arya Putra · Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject:

Oh embodied soul, you should not think in 'boxes.' In your 'signature,' you say "Love is God." What is the nature of God? If you know the answer to this question, then you will also know the nature of Love.

Love, like God, cannot be put into a 'box' with different sides and corners. 'Boxy' definitions of God and Love only confine our Love to our little mind.

People who love God through their mental images are only loving their own small self ego. People who love their parents, spouse, children, and the whole world through their distorted images are not really loving anyone; they are simply expressing their ego and looking for feedback to validate their own mythical existence.

The love you have spoken of is just a myth because it is rooted in Mithya Gyaan (false perception and false knowledge).

Prabhat · Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject:

savitri · Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:34 am Post subject:

Finally I got married to five husbands not unlike Draupadi. My husbands are
(1) Rig Veda,
(2) Yajur Veda,
(3) Atharva Veda,
(4) Sama Veda and
(5) Secular literature.

You may all bless me so that I may produce children of metaphysical works in sanskrit & other languages.
_________________
Love is god & god is love.

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 544

Prabhat · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:53 am Post subject:

Namaste.
i have a dutch coworker who is converted to the Islam. now he has strange things abouth girls.
he says girl of 14/15 years old should mary man of 35/40 years old.
why? because women of that age he says is in there prime time of having sex. and men of that age is in there prime. so whatever.

my question, what is the age for women to have sex? what dos the Veda's say abouth this.
_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 544

Prabhat · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:46 am Post subject:

Ajitwsapl · Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject:

What is Love?

Interesting Question! The best answer I think is:
ACCEPTING THE OTHER PERSON AS WHAT HE/SHE IS AND WHAT SHE/HE IS NOT!

When there is love, there is no I and you. There is no difference!

There is only one thing, (or there is nothing to differentiate)
There is No fear, No threat for life,
There is only joy or peace and Self Expression. One experience being alive and living!!!

It is true in all contexts of LOVE. i.e. LOVE between:
Husband and wife
Children and Parents
Student and Teacher
between Friends
Leader and Follower
etc.

I cannot understand what is there is so special in the love between husband and wife. It is important or it is precious, because about 40% of the time(in general) they are supposed to be together. The same level or subtlity of love is possible between any of the other pairs mentioned above!

When one express love is for something else, there is plutocracy. It may lead to pain later.

For example
Husband/Wife loves wife/husband only for sex/money.etc.
Friends love each other because they are similarly wealthy/healthy etc.
Leader loves follower just to have votes
Teacher loves student, just to keep him shut his mouth during the teaching hours.
Parents Love children to prove that they are great parents
etc.

What VEDAS direct as to open our eyes and to see real as real, unreal as unreal.

THERE IS NO REASON, WHY ONE HAVE TO LOVE THE OTHER!
BUT WHEN IT HAPPENS, IF WE DIRECT OUR DEEDS AS PER VEDA
WE MAY GET THE REALISATION OF WHAT LIFE IS OR EVEN MOKSHA ITSELF

Without love there is no scope for realisation or moksha.
Without love, no child can grow up in positive emotions and positive health.

I do not understand why sunithaji is saying that
“As a mother, i cannot bare the thought of a daughter, age 24 being married to a 46 year old man.”

We are not talking about ordinary people, who will die at young age. The Veda talks about four Ashramas, for the Aryas!!
Brahmacharya, Gruhastha, Vanaprastha and Sanyasa. The life does not end with Gruhastha!!!!

I think Ashramas are not existing/relevant today ! ! ! Is it so?

To Do Justice to the Subject Matter of Discussion,
Can the marriage between 24 year Girl and 48 year Man be Superior????

I would like to invite your views on what are the qualities a woman would expect from a Husband?

The answer a)sex has already been discussed. Therefore what are the other qualities?
I would share my view points on sex in my next post.
_________________
Ajit

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 544

namaste Ajitwsapl,

[quote="ajitwsapl"] I do not understand why sunithaji is saying that
“As a mother, i cannot bare the thought of a daughter, age 24 being married to a 46 year old man.”

We are not talking about ordinary people, who will die at young age. The Veda talks about four Ashramas, for the Aryas!!
Brahmacharya, Gruhastha, Vanaprastha and Sanyasa. The life does not end with Gruhastha!!!! [/quote="ajitwsapl"]

It is discrimating ....i admit. I feel that it wont work out well. I wont want my sons to marry a woman of my age nor would i marry a man thats 20 years older. My mom was 21 when she had me.

I would rather promote love marriage with age appropriately . ITS better to marry someone closer to your age. I fell disgust by the amount of very old men chasting after young women.

what are the qualities a woman would expect from a Husband?

[1] love, kindness, respect, affections,emotional and moral support.

[2] Enough wealth to help maintain home.

[3 ]Spritual aspect. depends how u look at things in general. wether the person believe in god.

[4] must have a good sence of humor. You dont want to marry a person who is too serious all the time.

[5] must have similar qualities example sports, eating habits,dress code.

[6] police clearance and health records should be good.

[7] participate in cooking, cleaning and parenting.

[8] lifestyle....do they drink alcohol or smoke...and how much? tv and video games, workoholics....very important things to consider.

[9] must know person family background and location.

[10] live long enough to enjoy a healty sex life. why marry an older man that wont live to see his grandchildren. Laughing

[11] honesty, reliability and trustworthy.

[12] Personality; wether they are openminded, onesided and their ability to tolerate the other differences.

[13] Problem solving skills.

[14] communication skills.

[15] stability, compatiablity, intution

[16] compromising

[17] financial capability....shopping habits etc.

[18] how does he/she react with the opposit sex away from partner. many loves to flirt and be too nice in public. Need to know this info before consider marriage.

I forgot to mention companionship.
_________________
Namaste!

Ajitwsapl · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject:

Let me share my understanding about sex, in vedic view point:

It is one of the greatest KARMA by which one can give a body to a deserving Atma. Even if the God wishes to give a body to a deserving Atma, he cannot do that unless a suitable couple has sex! In one way, it is the reciprocation of love, gratitude and respect towards our own parents, by procreation. The prime purpose of act – sex – is procreation. The joy of sex is the natural, as it is the privilege of the ones who engage in the act.

I have read that the emotions and temperaments of the mother during pregnancy will be transmitted into the baby, in one form or other. I have read that, in some species of reptiles, the temperature at the time of fertilization will decide the sex of the baby. Extending the principle, the emotions, feelings, etc. of the mother and the parents will naturally impact the balanced growth of child during the pregnancy. It just shows the importance of sex, partnership and companionship between the couples.

What is love? I do not agree with the statements of some pseudo-modern writers that sex is the end of love. Rather I would say sex is the outcome or privilege of couples. There is nothing in the world which is automatic. The human is responsible for his each and every action. Without the consent of the Atma, even the thoughts will not arise in mind. Mind is also called a machine in Vedic terminology.

The God is generous. The God gives what ever we want. As we never put our time to realize ourselves, we miss to realize what we really want, or really enjoy in life.

Just look at one example. I just had a Gulab Jamun(a sweet), which always I love to have.
What I really enjoy while eating the same?
Is it the taste of Gulab Jamun (the sense of taste)?
Is it my sense that I am eating the same Gulab Jamun I ate last time? By comparing with old memories?
Is it my sense of, I am eating what I love to eat? The sense of accomplishment?
Is it my sense of, I am eating Gulab Jamun, in an exotic place which I love to be??
Is it my sense of eating along with my friend, the Gulab Jamun which I love??
Is it my sense of eating something which is good to eat??
Is it the sense of eating something without which I cannot live??

The Vedic way of life may be, distinguishing my physical body, my indriyas, my mind, my intellect, my ego, sanskars etc. in what ever actions we do in life. To be more specific, the one who put efforts to only experience the sense of taste, may be missing the opportunity to enjoy or experience the sense of desire, accomplishment, action, ego, intellect etc. The time we distinguish all our subtle bodies, the joy of subtler kasha’s, and may be the experience of the attributes of our atma, may lead into realization of life itself.

Nothing in the world is permanent. There is no permanent joy in the world. Except the Atmas, Paramatma and the Primoidal matter, every thing in the universe is created, and naturally they will not exist permanently.

Sometimes in life, the dedicated couple, who led their life together in difficulties and joys, in fun and in challenges, may realize each other’s Atma and it’s attributes. Then both realize that, one’s subtler attributes are the same as the other. Then there will be totall acceptance of the other person as he/she is. There is no differentiation. Both are together and in peace. Sex and intimate sharings of subtler aspects of life, may have helped the couple to realize each other (even without knowing the philosophy of life). However considering sex as the major aspect, may degrade our own lives. One can notice that, when the mother loves the children, they will also experience this divine love, as there is no expectation. The Acharya loves his students.

Sex is unique, and has it’s own importance. How ever it is not at all an essential condition for successful or joyful family life. Knowing each other and being with no hidden agenda is of highest importance. The subtler identities are more permanent than the grosser ones, which is permanent than the physical body.

Today, at least in cultured society, purity is available in families. Let me explain. The friendships and clubs are formed to attain hidden agendas, i.e. to make money, or to do business or, to play politics, or to show one’s power and greatness. In these families there will be chances of love, acceptance of each other, no chance for animosity and arrogance, at the worst can be attachment with family members (which is not good). It is not at all because of the sex, or the greatness of the act of sex, the marriage survives unto death, but because of the pure love and responsibility and acceptance. That is why I reproduce the definition of love I read somewhere:

ACCEPTING THE OTHER PERSON AS WHAT HE/SHE IS AND WHAT SHE/HE IS NOT!

Now specific to the question, whether man can get married at 48 to a woman of 24,
I think it can be. If one is matured and balance he will be physically strong unto death. However the thing I am amused is that, why the reverse is not acceptable? Why a woman of 48 (who has studied similar to a Aaditya Brhmachari) cannot marry a man of 28?
More specific, how an equivalent of Aaditya Brahmachari can happen among women, and they get married?
_________________
Ajit

Ajitwsapl · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject:

Prabhat · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:29 am Post subject:

Namaste,

the guy i work with even place a artical on his blog-site. check this

http://www.anno70.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=34
_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Devotee · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: Reply from 'sick bastard'...

Prabhat · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject:

Namaste D. (let niet op mijn engels Embarassed

)
first i like to welcome you. nice of you to join us.we need guys like you on this forum. Cool

i hope the other members wil responce after reading your artical in anno70.

stil there are a lots of thing in your artical that say that it is better to marry a young woman at the age of 14/15. and i still dont agree with you. you say it is a thing of nature. maby you are right, but the nature of an adult man and thinking of having a partner is differend than the nature of a girl of 14/15 years old. at what age you start trying to explain to a girl of 15 that it is better to have a man who twice older than you.

oja the night eyes you already told me. smart of me to get you here Twisted Evil

_________________
Namaste,
Prabhat

Devotee · Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: at what age

well, isn't that what started all the hate reactions? I told you i was already 'preparing' my daughter of six. What do i mean by that?
Already at this age, as you know, children speak of all kinds of things and start forming ideas about how THEIR lives will be in the future. If at this age you only tell them "you will be in school" then you are limiting their options.
If my daughter sees a boy of 2 and says "he's so adorable" i tell her she'll have to wait another 7 years or so before she's able to have a baby of her own. This is of course completely different to a girl of six [speaking of 7 years in the future] than saying "You'll likely have your first child 26 years in the future" (as is the Dutch average nowadays). Or even worse, ignoring her obvious interest, thereby implying it can never be an issue. If you believe parenting constitutes keeping the truth from your children, of course, we don't see eye to eye.

Your ideas of at what age women might have children stem from your culture and what you see around you. Because you never see it in this culture you think it abnormal, However, were you to live in certain areas of the world you would simply think it common because you see it everywhere around you. All i'm saying is that you are limiting the scope of life for yourself and your daughters when you base what you tell them on what you see around you.

Right now the mother is feeding my daughter the cultural bs and i have to counter this. Otherwise she'll grow up to be one of these 'modern' Western girls who think of frivilous things when they should be thinking of responsibility. The way i see it having a child is what brings the concept of responsibility home to a woman. And at age 14 they may be young women but they are women. But a male at age 14 i would call a boy and not a young man. This is because of how the brains develop in humans. If you have no real idea about what i'm talkling about i refer to the articles i wrote.

How we deal with our women is not good for them. It's unnatural, self-centered, and doesn't make them happy. And frankly, it makes them difficult because they too become self-centered following our example. It is a strange thing to say a young woman of 14 isn't mature enough. When will she be? At 18? Why? God [or whatever you call it] made it possible for women to have children at age 12, 13, 14. Who are you to decide He was wrong and that women are NOT ready to have children then? Nowadays women have children at age 32. They're READY at age 32?! That's insane.
Admittedly, in our culture we treat our daughters like children and they are not ready at 14. That, however. lies with US as fathers and what we make of their lives as long as they are our responsibility.
Girls of 14 now actually say themselves that they're too young to become mothers. Of course they do! Because they weren't prepared for the whole concept. Which is their parents' fault.

I think a young woman with the care of an infant gets the message sent home that girls who are out fooling around, going to discos, doing drugs, smoking, and generally being [EDITED FOR VIOLATION OF FORUM POLICIES] haven't gotten. And that she'll be happier for it, now and for later. So you should've been speaking to her of her future possiblities in that regard as soon as she broached such subjects. Even a little girl knows she won't always be playing with dolls but what will she be doing? She gets such ideas from you. If you leave it to the culture she will simply follow the culture's lead and become a druggy.

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 544

namaste Devotee,

first of all, my opinion is completely different. I do wish to know more of your background. I need to consider where u coming from.....i will like to discuss everything u mention in great detail.

I am an arya samajist and also grown up well cultured. i am not a victim of child marriage. I had an arranged marriage at 18. i live in the western world since but i am still an aryan.

bye,
sunita
_________________
Namaste!

Devotee · Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:56 pm Post subject:

Dear Sunita,

where i'm coming from is a place where there is not such a fear of thought as is common. In order to understand what i mean by that you would have to understand and agree upon a number of things i assume to be true. These are things i have pondered all my life [i am 43] and have no doubt to be true but are commonly not considered.
As I explain in some detail on my blog the authoritarian trauma is what makes people fearful of thoughts that challenge the status quo of thought [i.e. cultural assumptions]. Mine was an easy childhood in this respect and i have relatively little fear of authority-threatening concepts.
Beyond this my birth itself was extremely easy, thereby diminishing the birth trauma. I believe this too led to my ability to consider fearlessly thoughts others consider taboo. All people are limited in their ability to accept certain trains of thought, myself included. This is a subconscious process. The extent to which we are able to think is different for everyone and most people (considering Milgram) are sorely challenged in this respect. Unfortunately, I find i am uniquely able to consider subjects others fear/find repulsive/accept as taboos.

That, in effect, is where i'm coming from. Besides this i grew up in 2 cultures. This alone made me sceptical of cultural dogmas because growing up i experienced 2 different set of values while all the people in those cultures consistently took their values seriously. Because both could not be right i learned to doubt the values coming from the culture i happened to be in at the time.

It is also relevant to mention my blood type to know where i'm coming from. I am B. And B's consider all sides to a situation before making up their minds.

I consider fact, reason, and science. I find opinions offensive. I don't have opinions per se. I care not for my own. I care only for arguments. Give me new arguments and i won't hesitate to reevaluate my opinions. Sane arguments based on fact, reason, and/or science are what count to me. Even in religion this is what i seek and i therefore appreciate the science of spirituality Adi Da offers.
To me people who merely base their opinions on personal preference, prejudice, and presumptions are barbaric. What are their opinions to me? Their attitudes are simply based on the presumption that thoughts need or should be dictated by chance or whatever power holds sway. That is to say, if the majority [following the principle of MIGHT = RIGHT] say something is so, THEY also say it is so. If the majority say something may not be so, they accept this. The same holds for what some 'authority' says.
I care not what the majority say, think, or do. I care not what the powers that be say, think, or do. That is where i'm coming from.

The Sat-Guru Adi Da has said that we need take into account what is appropriate. In the case of eating, for example, we should find out what constitutes healthful eating and act accordingly.
The same holds true for all kinds of knowledge it is appropriate we take notice of and apply in our lives. Sticking our heads in the sand and chanting our worries away is insane or barbaric. We must constantly reevaluate our knowledge, ideas, and opinions or we are the victims of our own insipidness.
In this regard the presumptions of the culture we stem from are particularly suspicious. I was born in the West, grew up in the West, and live in the West. That doesn't mean i have to be a typical Westerner with typical Western barbaric ideas.
I prefer sanity, reason, and civilization.

As far as the subject here is concerned common sense will lead you to most of what i have to say. But Charles Darwin, for instance, has written very interesting bits about what it means to be human in his book The Descent of Man. These are appropriate things to take into account. (And certainly when it comes to raising ones child) your preferences, presumptions, and prejudices are not, let alone your traumas, hang-ups, and obsessions. If you do not transcend your personal quirks and culture you only succeed in raising a little barbarian copy of yourself.

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 544

namaste devotee,

i will ask u questions instead.

(1) what religion did your ancestry practice?

(2) did both mom and dad's side family from same culture? what countries r they from?

(3) what can u safefly say about your teenage years?

(4) what kind of marriage did u have? did u know ur wife before?

(5) if your daughter married at 14 to an older man....lets say he is 20 years older than her...and him and family abused her, and she has children...what would u do?

(6) assume that she didnt finish school before marriage, what would her options be?

have lots more questions but this will be it for now.
_________________
Namaste!

Devotee · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: questions

hi Sunita,

Your backing me into a corner here. What is your agenda?

Questions 1 thru 3 i answered when i spoke of transcending culture. What do i care about my parents' religion? What will it help my children if i act like an idiot but say it's because my parents taught me to act that way? It will then still be ME who's acting like an idiot and me causing them grief. You have to face God [or whatever you call it] alone. So questions 1 thru 3 are irrelevant to a responsible person.

If you explain the relevance to question 4 i can give a relevant answer.

Question 5 assumes there is a danger with a 20 year older husband one of about the same age won't offer. If you can support this assumption i'll try to answer your question. For now it seems quite unwarranted.

School. One can write a book on the idiocy of the school system yet this is supposed to help? And your question also assumes a married woman can't attend school. Strange assumption.

Baseless assumptions are everyone's personal responsibility. I've seen people create arguments out of thin air just to ease their mind. This is not intelligent and such tactics are not a foundation for debate. They are a foundation for satisfying the ego of the one using them.
We can discuss fact. We can discuss reason. We can discuss research. What does it serve me or anyone on this forum to discuss baseless assumptions?

You will probably say i'm avoiding your questions but the person i was married to before wasted 10 years of my life making up stupid questions. I would spend hours explaining an issue to the root and the only answer she had to my trouble was another stupid question. And i was fool enough to take them seriously. As i explain on my blog stupid questions are nothing other than the mind evading the truth. I help neither you, this forum, and least of all myself by entertaining your fantasies.

Mind you, i'm not calling you stupid. I'm saying it's not intelligent to ask unfounded questions. Your questions imply i agree with your assumptions though previous answers i've given clearly state that that is not so. Therefore you are trying to coax me into giving answers that suit YOUR assumptions and betray what i've said before. You are not dealing with a boy here.

Such tactics are manipulative and immoral. You are trying to coax YOUR truths from me. You are capable of more than this. Or it is true what i explain in my blog about Black Pedagogics that your mind is actually not capable of thoughts that transcend such tactics. In that case you were crippled by your upbringing and your brain is limited to producing only soothing thoughts and arguments. Soothing to YOU but not to anyone else (except those who agree with you).

Ask an intelligent question and i will give you an intelligent answer. No answer i can give you, however, will satisfy the ones you just placed. And i see this as the only intelligent response to your queries above.

Sunita · Arya Ladies Forum Moderator Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 544

u just inspire me to call oprah tv and have a public debate. Be prepare.
_________________
Namaste!